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Old 08-15-2008, 04:31 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Changing oil not Necessary

While i was brouwsing on the internet to find some tips to make my car cheaper, i found this. Yeah it's dutch :P But here's an artilce about the formal director from Castrol Oil and he's saying that changing oil is a waste of money. He drives his car 350000km whitout changing (that are 186500 mile).

Now i was wondering. I've been told to change the oil every 10000km (6200mile) or once per year. Now i drive for 19000km (11800 mile) whit the same oil. And don't know when the formal owner did the last change.

A colluege from my told me that there was a test about 20 years ago. The toke 2 same cars. One doing everything what have to be done. The other one they did almost nothing (never changed oil) Than after 200000 km (124000 Mile) the examen the engines and found no difference, no more wear than the other car.

So what do you guy's thing about never changing oil.

/edit Also foundthis. Hmmm this is german now :P But in this article from the German TV station ZDF they say that modern oil had to be changed after 100000 KM (62000 miles).

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Old 08-15-2008, 05:56 AM   #2 (permalink)
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oil gets dirty

oil breaks down

I could see maybe using a bypass filter to keep things cleaner longer
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Old 08-15-2008, 08:42 AM   #3 (permalink)
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You can most likely increase oil change intervals, but you still need to change filters every few thousand miles to ensure it stays filtered. I'd also highly recommend having and oil analysis done after each change to see if the engine is wearing or not. That will tell you pretty much everything. Based off the results you can set the next change.
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Old 08-15-2008, 11:49 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Oil still should be changed. If you ever do the thumb and finger test you know that oil that is new is more viscous and clean than old oil. Oil that has broken down does not lubricate as well which leads to more engine wear. If you leave in in there too long it ends up feeling like water instead of oil. But you can extend the time between changes by using a good quality synthetic oil. Amsoil advertises once a year oil changes. But be sure to change the filter as a clogged filter will cause problems as well. Could you drive a car for 182k with the same oil i'm sure you could, but could you blow up your engine by using the same oil for 15k, i'm sure thats very possible as well.
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Old 08-15-2008, 05:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
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It's been said before but I'll reiterate... Oil breaks down. Even if you don't drive the car, after time of it just sitting, the oil will break down. It won't maintain a film like it's supposed to, and you could get metal to metal contact, which will greatly reduce your engine's lifespan.

Even if you don't believe that, do you not believe it enough to gamble your engine's life?
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Old 08-15-2008, 08:12 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Before the advent of synthetics I owned an Isuzu I mark. That car was given to my uncle with 30K miles on it, later on he returned it to me with 156K miles on it. As part of my maintenance mentality I went to change the oil first, pulled the plug and nothing came out !!!! I dropped the pan and noticed the engine oil had turned to sludge. Mind you the car made no odd noises and ran great. So I cleaned it up and poured new oil in it. 2 weeks later the engine began making valve noises and it was never the same again.

I would never consider cutting corners on the internal functions of my engine considering the strain it is under even under mild eco-driving conditions. Spend the $30 every 9 months, your car will love you for it.
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Old 08-16-2008, 12:39 AM   #7 (permalink)
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With a few uoa's (Used Oil analysis) oci's (oil Change Intervals) can be significantly increased in 95% of the time.

I have a Bypass on the Golf; only UOA I ever did was at 12k and the oil still looked great. I should digg it up . ..


Edit: If you want lots more information on the subject http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/
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Old 08-16-2008, 10:37 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I must confess. I have quit changing the oil in my Metro, but before I get shot let me note that with the blow-by of my motor and a small leak I lose a quart about every 4-5 weeks. I do, however change the filter regularly.
 
Old 08-16-2008, 02:10 PM   #9 (permalink)
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As dremd stated, you should go to Bobistheoilguy.com (link provided above) as the site is devoted to oils and other lubricants ... with a forum that has around 25,000 members. Mostly North Americans, but there are contributors from all over the world.

One subsection is devoted to UOAs ... Used Oil Analysis ... and you can see the PPM counts of wear metals, additives, etc ... from thousands of samples using different brands/types of oils.

Some general consensus items:

For modest drains (less than 4,000 miles or 6,500KM), it doesn't really matter what oil you use in a daily driver. Possible exceptions to this rule are sub-freezing conditions (synthetics flow much better in the cold than mineral oils) and severe, high-heat applications where synthetics of the same weight resist boil off better.

Extended drains are a more controversial subject … especially for 10,000+ miles (16,000+ KMs). They can be done safely in a vehicle that is operated in warm weather and where the operator tends to drive long distances. Synthetics help (they are more uniform and resist oxidation) but are not magic. Consider them for extending your oil change interval by 20% - 50% … NOT doubling or tripling it.

Not only does engine oil break down from heat and shear stress (it loses viscosity and becomes thinner), but it also becomes contaminated with wear metals, dust/dirt in the air and the byproducts of combustion. After a few thousand miles of short trips in cold weather, your oil can be 1-3+% fuel … which is a powerful solvent and a poor lubricant.

Engine air filters don’t trap all particles coming into the motor. From the combustion chambers, they migrate past the rings and into the oil. And once there, spin-on (‘full-flow’) oil filter cannot capture all particles in the oil. The smallest ones get through … unless you have a specialized ‘bypass’ filter arrangement that will capture particles down to a few microns.

Some engines are babied and still run into problems or early failure … while others are neglected or outright abused and seem to soldier on forever. However, these kinds of anecdotal stories are no reason to abuse/or neglect your engine. Regular maintenance is cheap insurance … and a poor-running engine is often an inefficient engine that uses more fuel than is otherwise necessary.

Bottom line: Change your oil … 2-3 times per year is ideal for most of us.
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Old 08-16-2008, 09:44 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I have torn down many engines and I can tell which ones are maintained and which ones are not. You should change your oil at at least every 7500 miles and rotate the tires the same time.

I can take two engines and perform the same test, but that does not give you an answer on how this effects the engine in the long run. I am also in the heavy truck industry and seen the companies that have tried this "No oil change" routine and it may save them money at first, but after the miles get up there, the engines start to develop problems.

I use synthetic oil and change my oil and rotate the tires every 5000 miles. I also check all tire pressures, air filter, fluid levels, etc at this point.

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