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Old 01-19-2010, 01:45 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bestclimb View Post
Whether or not it is a reasonable assumption the safe and intelligent assumption is that the other driver even with a stop sine is not going to stop and drive accordingly.
Legally, the person who has the traffic control device must stop and obey it. There is a reasonable assumption that the law be obeyed by the person who has the obligation to do so. The other party that does not have the stop sign is not legally required to stop or even slow down. Otherwise, we'd all be slowing and stopping where it is not required, which is hazardous in itself.

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Old 01-19-2010, 02:10 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Thymeclock View Post
Legally, the person who has the traffic control device must stop and obey it. There is a reasonable assumption that the law be obeyed by the person who has the obligation to do so. The other party that does not have the stop sign is not legally required to stop or even slow down. Otherwise, we'd all be slowing and stopping where it is not required, which is hazardous in itself.
Yep legally the person at the sign or red must stop, and the person with out a sign or with a green is to keep on trucking. But assuming that everyone on the road will always be where and do what you expect them to is just asking to get some sheet metal bent.

had too many instances where the person at the traffic control device was either unable or unwilling to to stop to just make the assumption that if there is a car approaching it will stop every time. This does not mean that I am slowing or stopping all the time, it means I have my head up and eyes out looking for the vehicle that is not going to be stopping. Leave yourself an out, drive at a rate where you can see and avoid.
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Old 01-19-2010, 03:58 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Thymeclock View Post
Here (near the city) they won't even try that nonsense. Yellow means 'proceed with caution". "Caution" is a subjective term.

Unless they can prove you sped up (radar?) that charge won't stick in court.
I'm going to assume you don't have much experience with traffic citations in/around the 5 boroughs?

How exactly do you think they can ticket you for running a stop sign? They saw you do it, and that's all it takes. Officers are sworn for a reason.

The above is not true at all, and I know this because I used to live in Manhattan, and gave up my car because walking is faster. The first time I went to court for a yellow-ticket was living in Manhattan, 18 years old. The burden of proof is on the defendant. The cop has already proven that you were involved simply by issuing the ticket and by you showing up, and that's no joke.

The last time I got stopped anywhere near NYC, I was cited by an officer on foot for running a red light. He gave me a ticket for failure to heed traffic warning devices, which I subsequently was not ordered to pay, but the fact that traffic moved so slowly that he walked to my car to issue the ticket was enough to tell me that I shouldn't be driving in the city.
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Old 01-19-2010, 04:16 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I've never had to pay a ticket for them, though... I'm pretty good at getting out of paying for tickets, usually because I push back court dates for so long the cop just doesn't show up.
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Old 01-19-2010, 04:22 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Oh, the number of tickets I've paid vs. not paid is actually pretty close... I've gotten LOTS of tickets over the years. Most of them, I can get out of, some are just too bad.

I didn't get hit for street racing, but I did get a wreckless driving and public endangerment charge... plead guilty to W.D. to get out of the other one, which carried possible jail time. Fine was 6 months suspension and $300+court costs. Ended up being over 1.5 years suspension by the time all was said and done, though.
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:18 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Hey, I'm an advocate for leaving the signs there, but you can't blame traffic signals for driver ignorance.

I got the point exactly as you displayed it, and I concluded from your information that there was none other than a lack of attention applied in that situation. Both drivers "assumed" that the other would stop (speculation in it's own right - they're both dead), and neither apparently slowed down or even glanced to see if there was a stop sign at any other corner of the intersection. It's driver error, nothing more.
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:18 AM   #37 (permalink)
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EDIT - OK, not necessarily true, but it conveys the point.

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