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Old 12-23-2007, 11:22 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Amerikans have been culturally conditioned to see "image" as all important. At the risk of quoting Mick Jagger, I just find that so unsatisfying.

And then there's the comments about the cost of the mods vs. the savings in gas: 1) at 440K, I bet the car has returned a pretty good value already; and 2) who says it's all about short-term savings?

Every time I hear about another life lost in the oil war, I feel guilty for my contribution by driving at all.

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Old 12-23-2007, 11:44 PM   #22 (permalink)
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America is so retarded sometimes. We're probably gonna be the reason for the end of the world. Especially this new upcoming election with Hillary Clinton... buh. We're so gonna be a wreck soon.
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Old 12-24-2007, 01:03 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DifferentPointofView View Post
well, I was just thinking of the lift problem because the whole car is shaped like an airplane wing, and since there is more down force towards the rear of the vehicle...
If anything happens, that is the most likely of anything. But in most vehicles, there is downforce generated at the front of the vehicle (because the majority of air is pushed up especially with basjoos' car, and that generates an equal but opposite force on the front of the car downward. Because of that, it would be unlikely to tip over that way IMO. It might get equal, but there is also the weight of the car (remember that the rear wheel would be the pivot point, and most of the mass of the car is right at the front end, exerting larger torque).

Most cars generate lift at the back, because there is a low pressure area from the rear window backwards, and that rear window is pointed primarily in an upwards direction, so that component of force (Force = Pressure * Area) is large. I thought this was what you were getting at, but evidently not.

Quote:
Most every car creates lift because of it's similar shape to an airplane wing, uneven raised surface on top, flat surface on bottom. The air going over the top has to go a lot faster than over the bottom so that the air meets up at the back at the same time as the bottom. This creates a high speed, low pressure on top and a low speed, high pressure on bottom, creating lift.
Third grade (and often, unfortunately, higher) level science textbooks have a lot to answer for in their attempts to teach aerodynamics by their mangled interpretation of Bernoulli.

There is no miraculous force that tells one molecule next to another molecule that it must somehow meet up at the other side of a vehicle at exactly the same time. None. To carry that meme to its logical conclusion, consider an inverted "T" shape - pretty much the ideal wing, because of all that distance and hence speed the air must travel around the top to reach the other side at the same time. Well no.

Please note that my ridicule is not aimed at you, it is aimed at ignorant publishers, science writers and teachers that credulously parrot these explanations. To help understand aero, spend a few hours googling "Newton" "Bernoulli", and aerodynamics in general.
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Old 12-24-2007, 11:37 PM   #24 (permalink)
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^^ Both cases of lift and down force aren't really of any significance Basjoos has already given a thumb up for high speed stability

Quote:
There is no miraculous force that tells one molecule next to another molecule that it must somehow meet up at the other side of a vehicle at exactly the same time. None.
That detail really pisses me off.... Especially when that's taught in flight schools - to greater than third graders.
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Old 12-25-2007, 05:30 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I really like the look of the aeromods basjoos has made, maybe you guys have covered this already, but, I've looked and not found it. Are their any pics of the mods before, during, and after that might give a newbee some helpful ideas? Thanx.
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Old 12-25-2007, 06:50 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Pictures of my car at different stages of the modification process and photos of various cars and aircraft that provided models and ideas are at the site below.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...Honda%20Civic/
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:01 PM   #27 (permalink)
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AutoblogGreen picked up the Aerocivic thread today:

Aerocivic's mods combine great aerodynamics and a, um, stunning look in 95 mpg Civic

Besides one guy who apparently hasn't heard of coast-down testing and disputes the calculated Cd, this positive comment:
  • With that kind of MPG, who cares what the drag is?

    Someday, all cars will look like this. Well, maybe not _exactly_ like this, but similar
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Old 12-27-2007, 11:02 PM   #28 (permalink)
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^^ Classic case of falling on ones sword - taking care not to miss the point. Some people just need to cling onto insignificant points - insignificant to the grand scheme of things :/ Makes their bitter morning coffee more palatable...
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Old 12-27-2007, 11:17 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
he could have just done some weight reduction and got similar results.
Why use physniks when ya can use good ol'merican injunuity.
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Old 12-27-2007, 11:36 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roflwaffle View Post
Why use physniks when ya can use good ol'merican injunuity.

'cause even fiziks is on his side Less weight is only beneficial (FE wise) during positive accelerating (including while going up hill). The rest of the time, aero takes over as the primary factor I'm not saying it's not important - but weight reduction only does so much (really great when you have a lot of extra crap)

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