Converting engine to Ethanol

[probuildjohnson]

I know you guys have heard and talked about ethanol and engine converting ur engine a million time. What im try to do is convert it with having to spend a hold lot of money doing it, then over people would be more amp to do it. If it wasnt going to cost mabye less then a 100 ducks to do it. any ideas? the old curb engine aren't so bad but its the fuel injected im having a hard time with.

[Lazarus]

What kind of car are you dealing with and what do you mean convert? Also why do you want to convert?

I found this to be pretty accurate with the Daewoo. I can a run a mixture up to E50 around a 10% decrease in FE. After that mixture it will drop to a maximum of about 23%

[Ryland]

Befor you do this, check out the mpg drop you get with E85 (EPA of 2008 chevy impala flex fuel) it drops from 29mpg on gasoline to 21mpg on E85, add to that the recent study that shows that ethonal contributes more to global warming then gasoline, that it takes half a gallon of oil to produce the ferterlizer and pestisides that are used in growing corn, and nearly as much fuel (gas, diesel, natural gas) to farm, haul, and prosese the corn into alcohol that it is close to being a net loss, add to that the economic side of it, that a recent servy (radio news broadcast) of economists say that bio-fuels are bad for the economy because of how they displace food production and drive up food prices.
anyway, to convert your engine to run on alcohol (E85) you need to rase the compression, give it a ritcher mix of fuel, and replace your plastic and rubber parts so they will not be attacted by the higher amount of alcohol.
to make a flex fuel vehicle (straight gas, or E85) you need to do all the stuff that is needed just for E85, plus add/replace a number of sensors and maybe the cars computer so that it can tell what fuel it has, and self adjust for those fuels.
The main reason for having to do all of this is that an alcohol burning engine is differnt then a gasoline burning engine, yes some can burn both, but not well, just like our A/C delco light plant can burn gasoline or kerosen or maybe even bacon greese, but not well, and not without alot of manual adjustments.

[Frank Lee]

Holy Mackeral, are you sure about all that???

I pour it in the tank and go. Anything after '88 or so will run on it, but expect some driveability issues if you go straight E85 in sub-freezing weather. I have found at concentrations of 50/50 or less E85/regular, there are no driveability issues and the fuel economy doesn't drop very much if at all.

[Lazarus]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Holy Mackeral, are you sure about all that???

I pour it in the tank and go. Anything after '88 or so will run on it, but expect some driveability issues if you go straight E85 in sub-freezing weather. I have found at concentrations of 50/50 or less E85/regular, there are no driveability issues and the fuel economy doesn't drop very much if at all.

I'm with Frank on this. I can run E50 with out much loss in FE. I been running a mix of E15 for quite a while, with no mods to the car, which give me better FE then straight gas.

[oldschool]

I'm not sure why the economy is focused on ethanol, because another alcohol , butanol, (which has just one more atom of carbon in it)can be a direct replacement for gasoline with no modifications to existing systems and a yield of 10% better mileage.

[Ryland]

Originally Posted by oldschool

I'm not sure why the economy is focused on ethanol, because another alcohol , butanol, (which has just one more atom of carbon in it)can be a direct replacement for gasoline with no modifications to existing systems and a yield of 10% better mileage.

but butanol is rather exspensive to produce, so far all of the butanol that is being produced out side of a lab in very small amounts is being produced in China...

I've talked to a number of people localy that keep track of their gas mileage, including a friend of mine that I work with who has a motorcycle shop, and they all say that E10 gives them a 15% drop in gas mileage, and the drop in E85 came right off the EPA web site and their numbers, not mine, some of the other bits of info come from our book shelf of books on making your own fuel and modifications you need to make to your vehicle to use home brewed alcohol fuels.

[oldschool]

Originally Posted by Ryland

but butanol is rather exspensive to produce, so far all of the butanol that is being produced out side of a lab in very small amounts is being produced in China...

LMAO, ok I maybe stickin my neck out here; but how expensive is it?

The last actual report I read on the cost of producing ethanol, said that it actually costs ADM $5.42 cents to produce a gallon of ethanol; that was in 05.I expect you will ask , then how can we afford to put it in fuel if it costs that much to produce?

The government subsidizes its production. If memory serves me ADM recieved several billion in subsidies for production of ethanol in 05. Lil wonder new production facilities for ethanol are springing up all over the midwest, with the government virtually gaurenteeing at least a break even situation for producers.

The next question would be who ultimately pays for those subsidies? You get to answer that.

[Frank Lee]

Is this going to be another ethanol subsidy thread? I'd love to talk about how heavily oil is subsidized too, then...

[oldschool]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Is this going to be another ethanol subsidy thread? I'd love to talk about how heavily oil is subsidized too, then...

I believe ya! Nope no more to say, can't solve a thing this way.