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Old 11-19-2017, 12:02 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Bias ply might actually be less inclined to induce rollover than a radial. The traction is lower, but the sidewall strength of bias ply is higher than a radial, more likely to stand up to the abuse. Hard to say.

I think the Corvair handling issue was real. They had a lot of weight back there, about 100lbs. more than the Beetle for example. I drove a 1960 Corvair once, went around a corner and the back end of the car felt like it lifted straight up in the air -- which it did! I wasn't really pushing the car or anything; it happened quite easily. I was happy to get out of that car in one piece, and never drove it again.

As others have mentioned Chevy fixed it in subsequent models, plus there's a kit available that ties the hubs together from underneath and prevents them from swinging excessively. But even with that you have a car with a *very* strong tendency to oversteer, which is not something most people instinctively know how to counteract. Understeer is easy to deal with, just steer more. But 'counter-steering' is counter-intuitive. Toss in the effects of lifting off the throttle during an oversteering event and you pretty much have a recipe for a wreck.

I despise Ralph Nader. He cooked the numbers to make them look as favorable to his desired result as possible. For example in his VW book he put the beetle at the top of a list of cars that broke people's legs in front end collisions. In fact it was the 10th car on the list; he simply chopped off the first 9. His books were hatchet jobs, not science. That said, the safety movement that resulted has done a lot of good for the population as a whole.

I still hate the guy though.

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Old 11-19-2017, 12:17 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I have experienced a similar problem with the rear engined Hillman Imp but never with my FIAT 126, which I threw about mercilessly.
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Old 11-19-2017, 01:57 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Okay, so thoughts on why the Corvair flipped in the old footage, at ~1:45?
Basically the same reason the GM pickup caught fire in the NBC News program?
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Old 11-20-2017, 10:49 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I played with a 66 convertible many years ago. Not too hard, but I never felt unsafe in it.
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Old 11-20-2017, 11:07 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I have experienced a similar problem with the rear engined Hillman Imp
Learned something new today. I was familiar with the name, but didn't know it was rear-engined.
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Old 11-20-2017, 11:15 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Here's another thing: Haggarty tester was driving on a smooth, flat runway.

Yet in one of the slo-mo clips near the end, you can see outside rear suspension (the side tucking under) beginning to load & unload while the car is oversteering. The back end is starting to bounce, with the opposite rear tire lifting off the ground. Throw in an uneven road surface that worsens the bounce, and it could be much more of a problem.
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Old 11-20-2017, 12:32 PM   #17 (permalink)
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The way I see it, you can outdrive any car. I never blame the car.

It was an odd car. Only 3 speed manual I've ever driven.
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Old 11-20-2017, 12:34 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I don't think you can steer with the throttle with a front weight bias. My 1964 Notchback Type II had swing axles. I could turn around in an intersection by going hammer down from stopped, and lifting the throttle 3/4 the way around to throw the tail out.

The thing that bugged me about Nader's book was that GM was slapped down trying something different for a change, the swing axle was already out of production, and it depressed sales of the 65-69 Monza coupe the epitome of mid-60s GM styling.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvair
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Old 11-20-2017, 01:39 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The way I see it, you can outdrive any car.
In this case, in my experience, outdriving the car occurred at normal speeds and circumstances. It was too easy.

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It was an odd car. Only 3 speed manual I've ever driven.
LOL that was the other thing about the one I drove. 3-speed on the floor, bench seat, sloppy linkage; if the seat was too far forward the car could not be shifted into first.
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Old 11-23-2017, 01:00 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
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The old Beatle has it too but it was even worst as it could literally fold under the car, the fix was to put a chain on the suspension to limit its movement downwards.
Apart from that chain trick, another option was to fit a thicker front stabilizer bar that somehow compensated the tendency to oversteer.

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