Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-06-2008, 07:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
Renaissance Man
 
Formula413's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: In the Northeast dreaming of the Southwest
Posts: 596

Aegean C - '17 Honda Civic LX
90 day: 41.77 mpg (US)
Thanks: 20
Thanked 31 Times in 24 Posts
Could a 2 stroke be green?

I was hacking away with a string trimmer at work recently, and it got me thinking. With sufficiently advanced technology and engine management, would it be possible to make a 2 stroke engine that could match the efficiency and emissions standards of conventional 4 cycle ICE's? Obviously a 2 cycle engine has a large advantage in power/weight ratio, since the cylinder is firing twice as much. Reducing weight is huge when it comes to improving efficiency.

The idea of 2 cycle engines in cars is not new. Back in the early-mid nineties Jeep had a concept vehicle called the Ecco which was powered by a 1.5L 3 cylinder direct injection 2 cycle engine.

Jeep ECCO Concept - Mojeepin.com

__________________

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 09-06-2008, 08:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
Dartmouth 2010
 
SVOboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hanover, NH
Posts: 6,447

Vegan Powa! - '91 Honda CRX DX
Team Honda
90 day: 66.52 mpg (US)
Thanks: 92
Thanked 122 Times in 90 Posts
Send a message via AIM to SVOboy Send a message via MSN to SVOboy Send a message via Yahoo to SVOboy
I doubt it, but by 2011 the EPA is requiring cats on all lawn equipment and such.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2008, 08:50 PM   #3 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Victoria , Australia.
Posts: 499
Thanks: 20
Thanked 46 Times in 33 Posts
Given enough development money and a suitable incentive I think ring dings could be made to be green.
Direct fuel injection and a separate oil system is certainly a starting point but then who would be willing to pay for that on a lawn trimmer or leaf blower?

Pete.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2008, 09:21 PM   #4 (permalink)
Renaissance Man
 
Formula413's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: In the Northeast dreaming of the Southwest
Posts: 596

Aegean C - '17 Honda Civic LX
90 day: 41.77 mpg (US)
Thanks: 20
Thanked 31 Times in 24 Posts
Just to clarify, I was talking about using 2 cycle engines in cars.
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2008, 09:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 92

Taurus - '99 Ford Taurus SE
90 day: 17.89 mpg (US)

Windstar1 - '97 Ford Windstar Cargo
90 day: 16.99 mpg (US)

Vulcan - '97 Kawasaki Vulcan 750
90 day: 45.96 mpg (US)

Suzuki - '09 Suzuki SX4 Technology AWD
90 day: 24.62 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
2 stroke wont be green since it "burns" oil
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2008, 10:19 PM   #6 (permalink)
Dartmouth 2010
 
SVOboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hanover, NH
Posts: 6,447

Vegan Powa! - '91 Honda CRX DX
Team Honda
90 day: 66.52 mpg (US)
Thanks: 92
Thanked 122 Times in 90 Posts
Send a message via AIM to SVOboy Send a message via MSN to SVOboy Send a message via Yahoo to SVOboy
2 cycles in cars? What's to gain really? Even if you could the issues with increased wear I think would reduce the value there.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2008, 11:26 PM   #7 (permalink)
EcoModding Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 284

Parachute - '03 Chevrolet Tracker LX
90 day: 28.55 mpg (US)

Peon - '95 Plymouth Neon Highline baby!
90 day: 31.39 mpg (US)

Slocus Wagon - '06 Ford Focus SE
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
2 strokes in cars eh? I remember reading in an old dirtbike magazine that they converted a CR500 engine to run on alcohol and they used vegetable oil for lubrication. It also made some rediculous amount of hp and the top speed near 130mph was traction limited...
It also drained the 1.5 gallon tank in 10 minutes... The emissions were quite "green" but the amount of fuel used makes it impractical.

Probably the most advanced 2 stroke engines available now are in snowmobiles and some are getting nearly the same mileage as 4 stroke sleds, within 10-15%. Total cost of ownership is still probably in the 2-strokes favor as they are far cheaper to buy initially and a rebuild is much cheaper but still required more often. An 800cc 2 stroke snowmobile drivetrain would make a Geo metro into quite the performance machine but I doubt it would get much better than 35 mpg.
Ian
__________________


  Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2008, 11:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Big Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Steppes of Central Indiana
Posts: 1,319

The Red Baron - '00 Ford F-350 XLT
90 day: 27.99 mpg (US)

Impala Phase Zero - '96 Chevrolet Impala SS
90 day: 21.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 186 Times in 127 Posts
I doubt a two-stroke would ever meet even mid-70s emissions standards.

The two-stroke's big edge is it lack of a valve train. But that means port induction/exhaust. So a port uncovers with the combustion event still going on. Unburned hydrocarbons (VOC) are emitted.

A lot of smart cookies tried to save the two-stroker but the last of them died out before Jimmy Carter was out of office.

Like everything else, engineering has a history.
__________________
2000 Ford F-350 SC 4x2 6 Speed Manual
4" Slam
3.08:1 gears and Gear Vendor Overdrive
Rubber Conveyor Belt Air Dam
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2008, 11:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,762

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,585
Thanked 3,553 Times in 2,217 Posts
Orbital Corporation Limited - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
__________________


  Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2008, 02:59 AM   #10 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Ryland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Western Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903

honda cb125 - '74 Honda CB 125 S1
90 day: 79.71 mpg (US)

green wedge - '81 Commuter Vehicles Inc. Commuti-Car

Blue VX - '93 Honda Civic VX
Thanks: 867
Thanked 433 Times in 353 Posts
my Tomos scooter has a 2 stroke engine, oil injection and a catolitic converter and because of that has very dry exhaust, unlike the old ones that had greasy exhaust.
I've also ran 10% veggie oil in 4 stroke gas engines with great luck, had it burn completely and read about people running it in 2 stroke chain saws with good luck and no ill effects.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LRR (low rolling resistance) tires - Green Seal report & list MetroMPG EcoModding Central 46 06-05-2015 05:24 PM
6 stroke engine idea? fredd7924 EcoModding Central 24 04-27-2010 09:00 PM
Technique quandary: gliding toward a stale green light - to pulse or not to pulse? MetroMPG Hypermiling / EcoDriver's Ed 27 04-15-2010 01:41 AM
Honda as a green company - perception overshadowing reality? atomicradish EcoModding Central 11 07-19-2008 05:36 PM
EPA Green car Lazarus General Efficiency Discussion 0 12-05-2007 04:51 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com