To crossover or not to crossover? (Possible rant)

[Isaac Zachary]

So maybe this is a rant that the moderators will need to come in, delete and ban me for an eternity but hopefully it will be more educational than just my emotions going.

As everyone knows crossovers are super popular in this day and age. Yet my internal spidey senses kick in and ask, "Why?! Oh, why?!" So I'd like to lay out my reasons against having one (while trying to be fair and respecting others opinions.)

From what I can tell, the main reasons people buy them are:

1. Safety.
2. Passenger and cargo room.
3. Off-road/snow/pothole capability.
4. Cost to performance and fuel mileage.

Safety.

Most people seem to feel that heavier is safer. Now I get the concept and feel that there is some truth it. But I do have two problems with this rule of thumb.

• Not all crossovers are heavier than all sedans. For an example, a Toyota RAV4 with the same options as a Toyota Camry only weighs 50-70lbs more. And seeing how the Camry costs less, it is possible that for the same amount of money you could get a Camry with more options (e.g. hybrid, AWD) that weighs a little more than the RAV4.
  
  Also note that this same thing can even be said of some full sized vehicles. For an example, a base Ford F-150 and a base Dodge Charger also weigh nearly the same.
  
  Another thing too is that there are some sedans weighing as much as 5,000lbs. But in the crossover's defence, such sedans are usually at a much higher price point than an economy model CUV that may be close to that same weight.
  
• Weight isn't the only factor in safety! Now, I can understand why some with a heavier-than-a-sedan CUV (or pickup or SUV) would consider weight to be the defacto standard to vehicle safety. There's a statistic you can find on the internet that states you're 7.6 more times likely to die from a head on collision between a full sized SUV and a compact car if you're driving the compact car.
  
  However, the statistic compare two extremes, the heaviest SUVs against the lightest of cars. But how's does an average CUV against an average sedan or hatchback fit into the picture?
  
  Add to that that there are other types of accidents that you could be statistically more likely to die from (or kill others such as your own kids) from driving a crossover. These include rollover accidents and running over pedestrians.
  
  Another factor in favor of sedans is the compartmentalized trunk. I actually knew of a woman who died from being hit from her own luggage from the back of her SUV in a single car accident. She was also reported to have been going only 25mph when she went off the road.
  
  Of course these one sided fun facts don't really don't tell us how the entire vehicle compares to all others in terms of safety. I must admit I'm no safety expert and it's hard to evaluate the true level of safety of a particular vehicle even going by crash test data, safety features and overall statistics. However, the fact that many small sedans and hatchbacks can have perfect five star crash test ratings, make their way to the IIHS's Top Safety Pick Plus category, and have great overall statistics for total deaths leads me to believe that you don't need a humongous vehicle to have a safe vehicle.

Passenger and cargo room.

Many people point out how much room they have in their CUV. But I have a couple thoughts on this.

• Station wagons and minivans do still exist. Buying a small SUV as if it were the only option to be able to haul stuff around isn't true. There are other vehicles that can have the same space or even more than your average CUV or even full sized SUV, and many times at a lower price point and better fuel mileage.
  
  For an example when Mazda came out with their CX line of crossovers their station wagons had more room, both for passengers and cargo, had more power, got better fuel mileage and cost less. Yet people still went bananas for their CUV's.
  
• Many times you're trading headroom for legroom. For an example, the Camry has more legroom than the RAV4. And this seems to be true of a lot of comparable CUV's and sedans. Personally, as long as my head isn't up against the ceiling I don't need an inch or two more than that to be comfortable, much less several inches above my head. I'd have the legroom instead.
  
  To be fair, I do see how the higher stance and shorter wheelbase of a CUV can be more comfortable for urban environments. Not having to get down into the car and then back up out of it at every stop to and from your home, work, store and school makes sense. But for extended periods, like road trips, with 3 or more people a full sized sedan, station wagon or a minivan make more sense IMO.
  
• Having a one-size-fits-all vehicle isn't always the most practical. Sure, I get the concept. What if you need to move a couch or dresser or something else that wouldn't fit in the trunk of a sedan? Well there do exist rental companies that rent box trucks and large vans or even 8' bed pickups for as little as $20. So you end up paying more for something that actually can move less or you still have to rent that moving van in the end anyway.

Off-road/snow/pothole capability.

Another reason I've heard people swear up and down went everyone and their dog should but a crossover is for driving in the snow. I've heard similar stories about how they need one to go camping or even just to navigate over pothole ridden streets to and from work. However, is this really so or are people exaggerating?

• You need good tires for snow and ice more than anything.Personally I don't get why so many think that having a CUV, pickup or SUV is imperative for driving in the snow. Having lived in the Colorado mountains all my life I've never really seen a need for a slightly higher ground clearance or AWD options. I means, sure, they help a little. But they main thing is traction. I've seen so many AWD CUV driver's get into the seat of a little FWD compact car with propper snow tires and then praise the car over and over again for it's superb traction. Not that you can't put winter tires on a crossover, of course.
  
• Money could be better spent elsewhere. If you have the money to get a CUV with AWD and snow tires you'll be pretty well set. But if you're on a budget, a cheaper vehicle, even a compact sedan or hatchback with a good set of winter tires is going to be way better than an AWD anything without winter tires, not to mention much cheaper.
  
• There are drawbacks to a taller vehicle and even AWD. One of the main things is over-confidence. Some people have been brainwashed into thinking that their AWD CUV is miraculously immune to the effects of bad weather. Because of that they tend to drive to fast for the weather and think that they don't need stuff like snow tires or tire chains.
  
  A higher center of gravity, especially on a shorter wheelbase CUV, also affects stability on any type of terrain. There's really shouldn't be driven faster than any other car, especially on icy surfaces. The word "sport" in "sport utility vehicle" refers to a different kind of sport than it does in "sports car."
  
  Also, if you're getting an AWD CUV because you think you (or you teen driver) will be safer, think again. 2WD tends to help send the signal to the brain that it's slick out and you need to take it easy. AWD makes it easier to take off making the novice driver not realize how slick it really is. Rarely does AWD save you from a dangerous situation. If you slide off the road and get stuck in a 2WD chances are you're probably not knowledgeable enough to be a safe driver in that kind of weather and are better off stuck in a snowbank.

Cost to performance and fuel mileage.

Lots of people like to say how their "SUV" costs the same as a sedan and gets car-like fuel mileage. Now crossovers are getting pretty close, but...

• They still tend to get worse fuel mileage and at times have less power. The laws of physics apply to all vehicles. If you make a vehicle big and boxy and maybe even a little heavier the result is it takes more energy to move the thing per mile. So whatever you do to make a CUV to get 30 or 40mpg could be getting a sedan or true station wagon some 40 or 50mpg.
  
  A lot of times CUV's are built on the same platform as lower profile cars with the same engines. But those engines have to be tuned to get better fuel mileage at the cost of getting less power. So you get less power, worse fuel mileage and potentially less space at the same time.
  
  To get better fuel mileage some manufacturers are even pushing for CUV coupés, which is something I don't know how to take. What is this vehicle? Tall yet sloped. Is this like making a big bore engine and then putting a small carburetor on it to see if that makes up for the other in fuel mileage?
  
• Electric CUV's make even less sense. The biggest challenges behind making EV's a practical option are 1) making a cost effective battery, 2) making the vehicle have enough range, and 3) being able to charge quickly at home and on the road. Taller and boxier work against these goals. There have been a few I've seen online that have even complained that the went from a Tesla Sedan with a smaller battery to a Tesla SUV/CUV with a bigger and more expensive battery yet end up getting less range. [
  
  I also noticed that the Tesla Model 3 with all it's frunk 'n trunk space doesn't have great cargo and passenger weight capacity. Just putting my family in one doesn't leave weight for any luggage. But the Model Y with even more space has even less weight capacity!

Of course, in the end I must admit that crossover utility vehicles aren't that much worse than your average sedan, hatchback or station wagon. Many would even suggest that there's not that much difference between a CUV and a station wagon. And with their popularity, they will only be improved more and more.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

It's quite strange how vehicles which seemed to be nothing but a workhorse evolved into a status symbol for the middle-class, and it applies to both pick-up trucks and SUVs. There were times when Ford advertised the Willys Station Wagon (which it continued to make in Brazil after the local branch of Willys-Overland merged with Ford) as a direct contender to the VW Beetle for instance.

[jakobnev]

I'm not sure the rationalizations people give are real, it's just human see human do, they see a crossover being driven, they want to drive a crossover.

It all started with the CAFE-standards that drove people from cars to light trucks (i.e. SUVs)

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by jakobnev

I'm not sure the rationalizations people give are real, it's just human see human do, they see a crossover being driven, they want to drive a crossover.

It all started with the CAFE-standards that drove people from cars to light trucks (i.e. SUVs)

But they see a Prius being driven and they call it "an ugly vehicle."

I think it's a see Arnold Schwarzenegger people do scenario.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by jakobnev

It all started with the CAFE-standards that drove people from cars to light trucks (i.e. SUVs)

CAFE standards effectively favored SUVs in the United States, but how could we explain why some car brands not available there are also following the SUV bandwagon?

On a sidenote, when it comes to "light trucks", if I had a choice nowadays I'd still rather get something like this...


instead of a 2WD version of this...

[Piotrsko]

Wouldn't it depend on what you haul? Bulky cargo I can see a semi box, but 6 people commuting, no. Btw have you tried to put 6 normal sized people into a 4 door sedan lately?

[Isaac Zachary]

Seeing how the front 3-person bench seat is gone (at least in the USA) hauling more than 5 people requires 3 rows of seats.

Sadly, the only smaller three row vehicles sold new in the USA are crossovers. Vehicles like the Prius v never got three rows here. Station wagons are non existent so you can't get those with or without the rows. I did really like the MAZDA5 which sadly never had the 7 seat version here and is no longer sold.

However, when it comes to bigger 3 rowed vehicles I find the mini vans much more roomy than the full sized SUV's.

[Piotrsko]

Bingo, exactly my point as to why there are so many suv/crossovers. Plus the third row folds down so you have a station wagon sort of.

Btw I believe you can still get a chevy Belair and a mercedes station wagon. The chevy is a custom build, I don't do mercedes. We have one of each here in Reno that I have seen.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

Bingo, exactly my point as to why there are so many suv/crossovers. Plus the third row folds down so you have a station wagon sort of.

Btw I believe you can still get a chevy Belair and a mercedes station wagon. The chevy is a custom build, I don't do mercedes. We have one of each here in Reno that I have seen.

But that brings up another point I don't like about the crossover/SUV invasion. It's killing other designs. Three row station wagons have and do exist. But the only station wagons available in the USA are luxury ones. There's a Tesla Model S that has three rows, but that's a little out of my price range.

The minivan seems to be following the same story. One day the only three-row options may be SUV and CUV only.

[Piotrsko]

The manufactures are utilizing an emissions loophole with the light truck designation that minivans can't. Therefore minivans are going extinct leaving the CUV/SUV class. Besides minivans aren't cool and offroady.