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Old 10-27-2012, 04:26 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HydroJim View Post
. Plus, if I build the car from scratch, then everything can be the way I want it.
I like that there is a lot of people in my area with that mentality except it is with offroad vehicles instead of FE. People take a lot of trash talk if they buy their rigs prebuilt rather built from stock. I plan on 1 day in the next 5 years to strip an s10 down to bare and everything but the cab and frame being replaced for FE

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Old 10-27-2012, 04:52 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Fieros are good for kit cars as you can remove the body and the rest of the vehicle is basically self contained (the Ferrari used in the early seasons of Miami Vice was a Fiero kit car - it's a fact! lol). Already mid engined, if you could mate the Metro 1.0l to the existing gearbox then you could build whatever body you wanted to around it, and all the really hard stuff would be done already.
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Old 10-27-2012, 06:30 PM   #13 (permalink)
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A narrow rear track may be great for aerodynamic drag, but is extremely bad in snow because it pushes snow at four instead of two places. Double the drag.

Where's your gas log? We are curious about your MPG with all those mods.
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:41 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Gealli- a lot of my kids at my high school think they're sweet driving the cars that their parents bought them with their flashy rims, exhausts, and stereos that they couldn't even install themselves. It's a sad epidemic. I feel like just 30 years ago, things were way different, but I wasn't there so I can't tell for sure. My dad says kids used to build up their own cars all the time. he also said prices were a lot cheaper back then.

War-Wagon- The idea crossed my mind, and I'm still considering it, but didn't want to have the deal with custom adapter plates between the engine and transmission.

JRMichler- very good point. Something I may have to consider. I think I will end up going without the narrower rear track because I would have the find/make new axle shafts and I'm trying to make this a lower budget build. obviously it will hurt drag, but I'll just have the make a longer boat tail!
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Old 10-27-2012, 10:12 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Midengined! Good stuff.

As far as bike engine goes, the 2 issues are that 1. Motorcycle clutch is no good for starting a car 2. No reverse. Both are fixed by using a car transmission, but getting the motorcycle engine to mate to a normal car transmission takes a lot of fabrication. Best to just stick with a proven FWD drivetrain the way Elise/Exige/Evora/MR2 does. The one thing that will need some modification is the shifter linkage.

Same width rear track, sunken in ducts on the sides should be good. If you're going to have a bit of tail hanging out you'll be able to enjoy a lot of drag reduction already compared to typical cars, which have short rear overhangs for various reasons. On my MR2 Spyder the side ducts are sunken in at around the maximum angle possible.

You'll have the chance to design the ducting to pass air through the engine bay much more freely than on my MR2, so be sure to do that. Since some of the air on the side will be diverted to the engine bay, I think you can taper the greenhouse portion more.
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Old 10-27-2012, 10:32 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialk11r View Post
Midengined! Good stuff.

As far as bike engine goes, the 2 issues are that 1. Motorcycle clutch is no good for starting a car 2. No reverse. Both are fixed by using a car transmission, but getting the motorcycle engine to mate to a normal car transmission takes a lot of fabrication. Best to just stick with a proven FWD drivetrain the way Elise/Exige/Evora/MR2 does. The one thing that will need some modification is the shifter linkage.

Same width rear track, sunken in ducts on the sides should be good. If you're going to have a bit of tail hanging out you'll be able to enjoy a lot of drag reduction already compared to typical cars, which have short rear overhangs for various reasons. On my MR2 Spyder the side ducts are sunken in at around the maximum angle possible.

You'll have the chance to design the ducting to pass air through the engine bay much more freely than on my MR2, so be sure to do that. Since some of the air on the side will be diverted to the engine bay, I think you can taper the greenhouse portion more.
I've pretty much given up on the motorcycle idea for these reasons. Thank's for the tips about the air ducts
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Old 10-27-2012, 10:55 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I've been thinking about the front end of the car some more. I would like to make it a blunt front end like the aero template, but finding a piece of tempered glass in the right shape is proving the be quite the challenge. Plus, a wedge shape front end is better looking, so I'm going to use a little inspiration from dave cloud's cars.

I'm going to use the passenger compartment from one of my donor metros and chop the top like this:

I'll lose window functionality, but maybe I'll figure something out to get a functional window so I can breath during those hot summer days.

I may also switch the doors to being hinged at the top instead of the front.

This does 2 things:
1. gull wing doors are cool.
2. this allows me to not worry about interference from my body work.

Basically, this shows what my body work is going to look like around the front wheels:


It makes it much easier to make front wheel skirts that can cover the whole wheel all the way down and not stick out like a giant bubble.
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Old 10-28-2012, 04:29 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Cool beans!

No need to re-invent the wheel. Just design within this envelope.

The dymaxion uses flat glass in a teardrop.

Given that the Metro parts are sized to a given aero drag, if you improve the Cd, you can increase the cross sectional area. And the length:

If you follow the Dad's dune buggy plan, please replace the rear coils with something sized more like the front ones. Build to a show car finish. You know you're going to want to show it, may as well make that part of the plan.

Autospeed has some pretty good info:

Monocoque tubs
Building an Ultra Light-Weight Car, Part 1

Building an Ultra Light-Weight Car, Part 2

Tubing trusses
Building Ultra Light-Weight Tubular Frame Vehicles, Part 1

Building Ultra Light-Weight Tubular Frame Vehicles, Part 2
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Old 10-28-2012, 12:02 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I've been brainstorming a little more. and here is where I'm at:



Now I'm back to the front wheel drive or rear wheel drive question.

Front Wheel Drive:
Pros
easier to fabricate
can have narrow rear track
more optimal rear end
can use existing brakes which simplifies emergency brake

Cons
Not as cool
slightly less optimal front end
Crowded engine bay

Rear Wheel Drive:
Pros
Really Cool and unique
more optimal front end

Cons
harder to fabricate
No idea how I would handle the shift linkage
less optimal rear end
emergency brake would be added cost and complicating with disk brakes around

With front wheel drive, radiator would be vented under car(or into front wheel wells)
With rear wheel drive, radiator would be vented into the wake

Let me know what you guys think. I'm leaning towards front wheel drive because I can pretty much just chop the car off at the B pillar, build what I want, and not have to worry about moving the engine all around. Plus, I have no idea how I would handle the shift linkages. Plus, I can have a narrower rear track to help the aero. I've dismissed the idea about a narrower rear track hurting snow MPG because I'm not planning to drive this in the snow very often.

BUT, a mid-engined car with rear wheel drive is too cool.

decisions decisions

Anyways, I think my design is something that an average person would say looks cool which is good
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Old 10-28-2012, 01:29 PM   #20 (permalink)
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RWD / Mid engine is the optimum, there is a reason most race cars are mid-engined including reduced aero drag - this was the reason that Cooper cars used this layout to beat Ferrari with smaller engines in F1.



That tapped Arthur Mallock managed to compete with (and often beat) mid engined cars with his own front engine / RWD racers.



The disadvantages of the mid-engined layout are poor luggage space, poor mechanical access and (sometimes - e.g. early Mk2 Toyota MR2s) tricky handling.

FWD packages all of the components in one place with reasonable access and it can be extremely aero - the aerocivic for example.



or the Metro based Dolphic electric car



Quote:
Originally Posted by War_Wagon View Post
Fieros are good for kit cars as you can remove the body and the rest of the vehicle is basically self contained (the Ferrari used in the early seasons of Miami Vice was a Fiero kit car - it's a fact! lol)...
The early one was a Daytona convertible replica / kit car based on a vette. The later series used a (real) Testarossa because they were into spending silly money. They also featured supercars from the 80s - Phil Collins did an episode and had a Lambo Jalpa I think.

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