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Old 10-28-2012, 01:37 PM   #21 (permalink)
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The forum software ate my lengthy reply when I clicked Preview Post. (grumble, grumble) Memo to self, copy before you click anything. Anyway...

You will need to lock down some decisions and not revisit them. Front engine = fiberglass body kit and a top chop. Mid-engine = cooler than poo.

Does the Metro use a rod or cable for the shifter? Mid-engine dune buggies have that all sorted out, look through their catalogs.

What are you using for your graphics? If it supports transparent layers, work over a side view of the real car and then turn the bottom layer off. You will see that your wheel/tire is way out of proportion. I know you asked for help with that. Without better specification, anything someone else might do will lead you away from where you want to be.

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Old 10-28-2012, 08:13 PM   #22 (permalink)
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For the shift linkage, I imagine there's a simple way to attach it with the usual cables and whatever (I think FWD cars are all cable actuated shift linkages?), and then you'd just need to get used to the shift pattern being flipped around? Someone tell me if I'm overlooking something.

IMO the most important feature of midengined layout is the shorter front lets you keep the overall car length shorter with an equal length tail. Adding a boattail to a front engine car makes it awkwardly long. The need for side intakes and venting to the wake reduces drag slightly too.
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Old 10-28-2012, 08:59 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I'm not sure if every model is the same, but Coyote X's geo build had a solid shifter linkage. which seems pretty simple to do.

Shifter installed
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:06 AM   #24 (permalink)
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HydroJim - you may take a look here: http://grabercars.com it's a sports middle engine car build from a scratch. You may get some ideas there and answers as well.
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Old 10-29-2012, 07:35 AM   #25 (permalink)
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You mentioned engine air flow earlier.

You can run radiator hoses to wherever you need, the rad doesn't have to be right by the engine. That might free up some of the decision process. However for a FE car, remember a long hose run will increase total coolant capacity slightly so warmup time will be slightly longer.

I've seen mid or rear engine performance cars in the lot at work with the radiator in the front. Sorry, can't recall if they were Porsches or Lotus. In nice weather, we often have several of both in the lot! An odd perk of working where jet engines are designed built, more than one employee is seriously interested in speed for some odd reason.
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Old 10-29-2012, 04:44 PM   #26 (permalink)
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For now, I have decided to stick with the front wheel drive, because I am trying to get this done in one summer and it will require a lot less fabrication to keep the engine in the front. Plus, gains from putting it in the back would be minimal and front wheel drive will allow me to pull the rear track in to help with the aero.

Hopefully I can convince the university that I study at to fund a fuel economy project so I can build the mid engine car I dream of. I think I could beat the edison2 VLC with the right budget.

Some questions:
What are some weight saving mods specific to the metro?
Maybe some lighter brake components are available? I know the civics have light drums and wheels.

Any idea how to deal with rear window defrosting?
I'm not sure if I'll be putting a window in, but it would be nice. I just want to make sure I can see out of it if I have one.

What do you think of this guy's mods?
Singh groves and intake manifold turbulence
Grooved Metro number 2
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:08 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HydroJim View Post
What do you think of this guy's mods?
Singh groves and intake manifold turbulence
Grooved Metro number 2
Search is your friend.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:25 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucepick View Post
You mentioned engine air flow earlier.

You can run radiator hoses to wherever you need, the rad doesn't have to be right by the engine. That might free up some of the decision process. However for a FE car, remember a long hose run will increase total coolant capacity slightly so warmup time will be slightly longer.

I've seen mid or rear engine performance cars in the lot at work with the radiator in the front. Sorry, can't recall if they were Porsches or Lotus. In nice weather, we often have several of both in the lot! An odd perk of working where jet engines are designed built, more than one employee is seriously interested in speed for some odd reason.
I feel like the coolant capacity thing is not that big of a deal, as car radiators are pretty big in the first place.

But yes it's typical for mid engine/rear engine cars to stick a radiator in the front. I actually can't think of a car that doesn't do that, although I might be derping. MR2s have the radiator in the front. Some supercars with additional cooling requirements might have radiators sitting in the back as well. Space in the back is precious.

Oh what do you know, the McLaren MP4-12C ONLY has radiators in the back, to save piping. I think that's what those divided inlets are for, the inner ones turn air into the radiators.
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Old 10-30-2012, 07:16 PM   #29 (permalink)
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This is where I'm at in the design process.

Maybe you guys can help me name it? It's going to start off as a 1989-1994 geo metro, but nothing will be recognizable except things under the hood. I plan on painting it white because there won't be A/C to cool a dark car and white paint is generally cheaper. It will be a 2 seater(maybe a third whose legs would be between the front seats) and I'm shooting for 100 mpg while cruising at 60 with the use of lean burn.

I'm sticking with front wheel drive because I'm trying to get this done in one summer and rear wheel drive would add too much fabrication time.
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Last edited by HydroJim; 10-30-2012 at 07:26 PM..
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:19 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Since it looks like Dave Cloud's car, "Dolphin Too"

If you move the rear axle forward, with the same taper, you wouldn't have to narrow it as much. It might corner better.

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