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Old 02-29-2020, 12:39 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
I would certainly hope not.
I thinking more like people trying to drive 40 or 50 miles a day on 8 to 10 hours of at home 120v charging.
You can do that with a car that gets 3 to 4 miles to a kwh.
A truck will get around 2 mIles to a kwh.
The latest MOTOR TREND carried quite a bit on BEVs.Here's some numbers:
*2021 electric Ford F-150,..........................................333 Wh/mi
*2021 Cybertruck,....................................... ..............400 Wh/mi
*2020 RIVIAN,........................................... ............... 450 Wh/mi
*2020 Lordstown Endurance,....................................... 450 Wh/mi
*2021 Chevrolet/GMC HUMMER electric,......................... 500 Wh/mi
*2021 Bollinger B2,............................................... ...... 600 Wh/mi
.................................................. .................................................. ....
Some ICE,gasoline-powered pickups:
*2018 Ford F-150 Lariat,FX4 (PREMIUM fuel).................. 1400 Wh/mi (HWY)
*2019 RAM 1500 Laramie,.......................................... .. 2110 Wh/mi Ave.

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Old 02-29-2020, 01:49 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I'd be impressed if the CT gets 2.5 miles per kWh in combined efficiency. I was expecting 2.
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Old 02-29-2020, 02:31 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I'd be impressed if the CT gets 2.5 miles per kWh in combined efficiency. I was expecting 2.
The Model X can get it's combined EPA range at a steady 70-mph.I suspect that Cybertruck will do likewise. You might see Cybertruck do 860-miles at 55-mph.The velocity-cubed power law is a real killer.
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Old 02-29-2020, 10:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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860 miles? That sounds too optimistic to me.

Offroad tires have really freaking high rolling resistance because tread hysteresis. I recall looking at some tire RR list some number of years ago. Most passenger tires were in the 0.006-0.012 range, but some offroad tire stuck out like a sore thumb at 0.017.

Just looking at the Tesla, I think the wheels are going to contribute way too much drag to hit 0.30 Cd. Maybe miracles happen though.

I think Elon's range targets might be hit with some special street-friendly tire, and the people ordering the knobbly tires are going to be pretty disappointed with the range.
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Old 03-02-2020, 09:15 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
The latest MOTOR TREND carried quite a bit on BEVs.Here's some numbers:
*2021 electric Ford F-150,..........................................333 Wh/mi
*2021 Cybertruck,....................................... ..............400 Wh/mi
*2020 RIVIAN,........................................... ............... 450 Wh/mi
*2020 Lordstown Endurance,....................................... 450 Wh/mi
*2021 Chevrolet/GMC HUMMER electric,......................... 500 Wh/mi
*2021 Bollinger B2,............................................... ...... 600 Wh/mi
.................................................. .................................................. ....
Some ICE,gasoline-powered pickups:
*2018 Ford F-150 Lariat,FX4 (PREMIUM fuel).................. 1400 Wh/mi (HWY)
*2019 RAM 1500 Laramie,.......................................... .. 2110 Wh/mi Ave.
Any idea where they got those numbers? I mean, very little is known about the EV-150
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Old 03-02-2020, 10:29 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
I would certainly hope not.
I thinking more like people trying to drive 40 or 50 miles a day on 8 to 10 hours of at home 120v charging.
You can do that with a car that gets 3 to 4 miles to a kwh.
A truck will get around 2 mIles to a kwh.
I could top of my Spark EV overnight driving 50 miles per day using 110v. That was averaging 4-5 miles / kWh.
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Old 03-02-2020, 11:18 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ME_Andy View Post
Any idea where they got those numbers? I mean, very little is known about the EV-150
This is the only comprehensive article MT has published on upcoming electric pickups. The efficiency numbers come directly from battery capacity divided by range. However, MT estimated battery sizes (conjecture for every truck in the article except Rivian and Bollinger; no one else has announced battery capacities) and range (again, conjecture for every truck in the article; none of the trucks have received an EPA rating as yet, although Tesla does state "250 mi/300 mi/500mi (EPA est.)" on its website for the three versions of the Cybertruck), so these numbers could be way off--we don't have any way to know yet. As you point out, we know next to nothing about the EV F-150, and even Tesla has said nothing about the pack sizes that will be offered in the Cybertruck (in fact, Tesla hasn't even stated the actual capacities of the various Model 3 batteries--so I wouldn't expect to see that number published for the Cybertruck anytime soon).
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Old 03-04-2020, 11:10 AM   #18 (permalink)
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860-miles

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Originally Posted by serialk11r View Post
860 miles? That sounds too optimistic to me.

Offroad tires have really freaking high rolling resistance because tread hysteresis. I recall looking at some tire RR list some number of years ago. Most passenger tires were in the 0.006-0.012 range, but some offroad tire stuck out like a sore thumb at 0.017.

Just looking at the Tesla, I think the wheels are going to contribute way too much drag to hit 0.30 Cd. Maybe miracles happen though.

I think Elon's range targets might be hit with some special street-friendly tire, and the people ordering the knobbly tires are going to be pretty disappointed with the range.
*I just used the performance of the Model X as a shoot-from-the-hip guide.At 55-mph,the long range version has a 426-mile range.70-mph knocks that down to 325-miles.Again,you really pay for speed.
*As to the tires,they remain an unknown quantity.However,as I've said elsewhere,Tesla has control over tire design.We know from Class-8,88,000-lb ,18-wheel semis,that their 10-wheel companions,with flotation tires have 20% less rolling resistance.Those big fatties may actually have lower R-R than what you think.And their size could play into a virtual area-rule,sectional density function,enhancing the pressure profile down the entire length of the truck,mitigating spanwise-flow,boundary layer contamination-induced longitudinal vorticity.Cybertruck has two other features which play into this same issue.
I've slept with Hucho since last Saturday.I can't imagine Cybertruck's naked body coming in,any higher than Cd 0.28.Cd 0.30 with honkin' truck mirrors.
*Cybertruck is a fastback.Fastbacks have the lowest drag of all body forms.Cybertruck is a 'Kammback.' 'Kammbacks' have the lowest drag of all fastbacks.Cybertrucks proportions are identical to Volkswagen's XL1,Cd 0.189.
Cybertruck's front champfer,body side camber,tumblehome,and raked greenhouse (an industry 1st) probably compensate for the hard leading edges.Cybertruck's boat-tailing is an industry 1st.Cybertrucks stagnation point is an industry 1st.Cybertruck's bonnet,frunk profile is an industry 1st.Cybertruck's windscreen saturation is an industry 1st.Cybertruck has an industry 1st belly.Cybertruck's backlight slope,at 10-degrees to horizontal,is incapable of producing edge vorticity.Cybertruck's roof camber is an advantage.
*Aerodynamically,Cybertruck is an F-117 Nighthawk.It uses every trick used by Lockheed.
*Dassault System's, Exa Corporation POWERFLOW CFD is a full-Navier-Stokes Equation program.It's results rival any world class wind tunnel.I suspect that Elon Musk and crew already know the numbers.It's unimaginable that they wouldn't.If Tesla's hit their 'combined' range at a constant 70-mph,and Cybertruck is rated 500-miles combined,It ought to return 500-miles at 70 mph,and 860-miles at 55-mph.You can test the velocity difference relationship with your own vehicle.
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Old 03-04-2020, 11:28 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ME_Andy View Post
Any idea where they got those numbers? I mean, very little is known about the EV-150
All came from the manufacturers,best I can tell.
Ford has constructed an ( at least did the R&D) EV,beginning around 1909. In the 1990s,they constructed a BEV Ranger pickup to meet California's zero-emissions mandate.BEV isn't anything new to them.GM had their electric S-10 and EV1.Chrysler had their electric T-van.
What's new is,radical competition in the pickup market,which is an extremely lucrative,competitive,however,not necessarily technology-driven market segment.Elon Musk has changed all that.Aerodynamics has been stifled for almost a hundred years now (98-years).Cybertruck represents the 1922 Jaray technology hated by all stylists.It threatens the very existence of these 'Paris dressmakers',as Alfred P. Sloan Jr. referred to them.And unfortunately,unless the legacy carmakers mimic Cybertruck in 'appearance',they have no way to compete with it's performance.It's shape is it's range.
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Old 03-31-2020, 11:49 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialk11r View Post
860 miles? That sounds too optimistic to me.

Offroad tires have really freaking high rolling resistance because tread hysteresis. I recall looking at some tire RR list some number of years ago. Most passenger tires were in the 0.006-0.012 range, but some offroad tire stuck out like a sore thumb at 0.017.

Just looking at the Tesla, I think the wheels are going to contribute way too much drag to hit 0.30 Cd. Maybe miracles happen though.

I think Elon's range targets might be hit with some special street-friendly tire, and the people ordering the knobbly tires are going to be pretty disappointed with the range.
I got rid of the Bridgestone dullers (on the drive wheels) it did improve my MPG by a lot..

swapped them out with Michelin energy saver about 10 pounds lighter in weight.. gave me a big boost in MPG.. from 25-27 on the highway to 27 to 31.5 on the highway

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