Diesels greener than battery cars, says Swiss gov report

[Ryland]

Originally Posted by RobertSmalls

People need to know the actual environmental impact of the items they choose to buy, so they can decide whether it's greener to spend $15000 on an electric mower + solar thermal collectors + new appliances + insulation for the house + beer, or if getting the Leaf over the 50mpg Prius is the better choice.

I agree completely! the thing with the study on co2 and electric cars is that is it pretty much a worst case co2 count for an electric car, our utility produces 10% or more of it's electricity by wind, I think 50% or 60% is still coal and they sell a option for wind power offsets that say they are going to produce 100% of what you use by wind, above the normal 10% that do already and as I understand the law that 10% that they produce is required by law by our state and no part of that can count towards the offsets that I buy.
While I'm at my parents, my electric car is charged with 100% solar and wind from their home grown electricity, so at those times that works case co2 output does not even come in to play.

[redyaris]

Lets internalize the cost to the environment of burning fuel, with a carbon/polution tax [price] and let the free market work. all the government has to do is to set the tax rate, collect the tax and redistribute the money to those making the best choises. The carbon tax must be used to reward good behavior, thus rewarding industries that provide "green" goods and services. you would think that western free market capitalist countries would embrace this as a solution at least in part.

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

It's better than using virgin fuels overall, but there need to be good population controls in place.

What, like lots of condoms - that kind of thing ?

[Piwoslaw]

Originally Posted by Duffman

These numbers are available if you look for them. If I remember correctly, 80% of the energy in the well makes it to the fuel tank for gasoline and 84% for diesel. This was a few years ago so I could be remembering wrong or it may have changed. I have never found anything for coal but then again I haven't looked either.

I remember reading that harvesting tar sands is much more expensive, energy-wise. Something like 90% of the extracted oil going back into the process. And that's before refining it into fuels.

[Duffman]

Originally Posted by Piwoslaw

I remember reading that harvesting tar sands is much more expensive, energy-wise. Something like 90% of the extracted oil going back into the process. And that's before refining it into fuels.

Most recent number I had heard was that oil sands were only 15% more carbon extensive than the conventional average. When you can put a number against it it puts radical comments in perspective.

[88hf]

Originally Posted by redyaris

Lets internalize the cost to the environment of burning fuel, with a carbon/polution tax [price] and let the free market work. all the government has to do is to set the tax rate, collect the tax and redistribute the money to those making the best choises. The carbon tax must be used to reward good behavior, thus rewarding industries that provide "green" goods and services. you would think that western free market capitalist countries would embrace this as a solution at least in part.

Fascist want cap and trade, a free society would rather simply stop subsidizing oil.

Electrics have the capability of 100% renewable power generation.

We need to continue encouraging home solar and wind installations not giving tax breaks to mega-corps which will sell us clean energy for the rest of time.

Pollution tax is bs. Companies are making billions and yet we are said to foot the bill converting our oil dependence into a free energy dependence which the same people will profit from and control? If we pay the bill we should profit and control.

Almost exclusively this new clean energy will be built by slave labor in china subsidized, infra-structured, and tax braked by tax-payers and exploited by the rich.

Robert Kennedy Jr. almost had me believing in tax and trade in one of his videos when he was talking about how bad coal mining is, and how oil is so polluting. Then about halfway through he starts talking about how its going to be all this free energy, well "practically free" and tax-payers should build the infrastructure so they can sell it to us! And how they can tax the competition out of business. Not by taxing business but straight up taxing the consumer. How about cutting oil subsidies and lowering taxes. Let us use our own money to build our own power stations at home! Stop trying to control everyone and let them be free, really free.