Difficulties in Effective A-B-A Testing of Insight 1

[RobertSmalls]

Fuel logs are actually optional. All you need to do is name your cars and declare their year, make, model, engine, and transmission.

[jime57]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Yes, I've owned one for the last 6 years.

As for garage entries, that'd involve me keeping fuel receipts & entering things - work, in other words. Why bother when the Insight records mpg automatically?

I don't post records either. I do keep a notebook record in my car so that I can track my improvement over time. I'm also active on two sites, so that would double the entry work.

Biggest problem I have with posted records is that it isn't MY record, it is OUR record, and the wife is horrible at efficient driving. She is binary driver, hard on or hard off

I want to find her a good, cheap Echo or Metro so that the Insight becomes MINE!

[user removed]

Jim I am retired as well. I would like to show you my IVT design sometime when it's convenient. I think you might like the concept.

I drove from Williamsburg to Blacksburg, then to Leesburg near Dulles Airport and back to almost Fredericksburg. It was 655 miles. Used Route 5, 288 south of Richmond, 360, 29, and some of route 15, 28, and 17.

Got 70.2 MPG on that trip with a lot of work in hills and elevation changes of over 2500 feet.

Driving to Richmond this weekend for a show.

The old US routes are really pleasant drives, since all the madness seems to be concentrated on the Interstates. The old US routes alos tend to follow rivers which makes the grades less severe, and the scenery can be much more interesting.

Sent you a PM

regards
Mech

[jime57]

Originally Posted by 3-Wheeler

Like Robert mentioned above, you can eliminate the background charging of the Insight by installing a Calpod IMA disable switch.

Look on InsightCentral on how to do this. The mod is relatively easy to do, and, like Robert mentioned, save you cash on your fill ups.

Jim.

Thanks Jim. From another site and consultant I was under impression that this mod only worked on 2000-2004 Insights. I have a 2006. I'll take a look at InsightCentral. I'd certainly install the mod if it worked. I find the difficult to control IMA activation to be something of a frustration, though opinions certainly differ on this feature. My wife obviously uses IMA a lot, from the battery SOC each time she finishes driving

[jime57]

Originally Posted by RobertSmalls

Fuel logs are actually optional. All you need to do is name your cars and declare their year, make, model, engine, and transmission.

Thanks Robert. I went ahead and updated my profile and created a garage.

[3-Wheeler]

Originally Posted by jimepting

Thanks Jim. From another site and consultant I was under impression that this mod only worked on 2000-2004 Insights. I have a 2006. I'll take a look at InsightCentral. I'd certainly install the mod if it worked. I find the difficult to control IMA activation to be something of a frustration, though opinions certainly differ on this feature. My wife obviously uses IMA a lot, from the battery SOC each time she finishes driving

Your definitely on the right track.

The Calpod IMA disable only requires some small wire, similar to phone cord, and a two way switch.

The hardest part is attaching the wire to the orange or yellow connector ON TOP of the clutch pedal pivot. You can see it if you lay on your back on the floor board, and look up to the extreme top portion of the clutch mechanism.

If you solder small diameter connector pins to ends of your wires, you can "wedge" the wires right into the back side of the connector at the top of the clutch pedal.

If you try it let me know how you like it.

I use my switch all the time, so it does come in quite handy.

EDIT:
Almost forgot.

There was a comment earlier in this thread that holding the throttle steady on the Insight is hard to do.

The ScanGage TPS readout shows that the Insight can be held steady enough to keep it "frozen" at 17 or so over a five mile stretch on the way home in the summer. Even with slight bumps in the road, it will stay right at 17 for the entire five miles, so it is possible to do. This is a straight stretch out in the boonies, with little traffic either way.

Winter driving, with snow on the ground, makes this almost impossible for me, as the drag on tires keeps changing due to the snow depth.

Jim.

[3-Wheeler]

There is one concern I have for getting gas consumption readings, similar to Metro and his tail extension:

1) The car without the under body smoothing panels and tail extension
2) The car with them both attached

The Insight has lean burn, and I'm wondering if the car without the aero aids will actually be able to get into lean burn at 55 to 60 mph on an old country road that is flat enough for this. Once in lean burn, the car would need to able to stay there for at least one mile.

Of course, this would need to be repeatable in both directions and for several iterations.

I live near the Interstate as well, but the A-B-A testing would all have to be done in the wee hours of the night, and it takes about 1.5 hours just to jack up the car high enough to be able to remove all the body panels from underneath the car. And they are held on with lots of fasteners.

Now imagine doing this for three test sessions (A-B-A), and getting all this done in one day while there is little traffic on the road, and the atmospheric conditions have not changed much!!

I do however, think that driving at a constant speed will give better results than coast down testing, again similar to Metro.

Jim.

[jime57]

Originally Posted by 3-Wheeler

There is one concern I have for getting gas consumption readings, similar to Metro and his tail extension:

1) The car without the under body smoothing panels and tail extension
2) The car with them both attached

The Insight has lean burn, and I'm wondering if the car without the aero aids will actually be able to get into lean burn at 55 to 60 mph on an old country road that is flat enough for this. Once in lean burn, the car would need to able to stay there for at least one mile.

Of course, this would need to be repeatable in both directions and for several iterations.

I live near the Interstate as well, but the A-B-A testing would all have to be done in the wee hours of the night, and it takes about 1.5 hours just to jack up the car high enough to be able to remove all the body panels from underneath the car. And they are held on with lots of fasteners.

Now imagine doing this for three test sessions (A-B-A), and getting all this done in one day while there is little traffic on the road, and the atmospheric conditions have not changed much!!

I do however, think that driving at a constant speed will give better results than coast down testing, again similar to Metro.

Jim.

Ah Ha. NOW you are beginning to have testing concerns like me

Anyway, a bit of information. My 2006 seems to maintain lean burn well at 55 MPH on level, or nearly level, roads. I don't think you will have any problems with that. The problem I see is getting a stable speed and stable throttle setting as you approach your test segment. Lots of stuff to control and look at. You gotta get past acceleration/deceleration, into lean burn, IMA battery fully charged, stay out of assist - it's a challenge but probably doable with the right road and some practice.

I think that you are correct that the best approach is to test all mods at once. In addition to underbelly and boattail, I'd advocate at least grill block (That big old lower grill opening looks lossy.) and maybe even some mild rear wheel smoothers behind the wheels. There is no point in introducing a lot of "noise" with incremental improvements. Just go all the way to what you are willing to live with. JMHO.

[3-Wheeler]

Hi jimepting,

There may be another approach that is somewhat reasonable for comparing aero changes without doing it all in one day.

I still am collecting coast down data on a single road on the way to work each day. This is assuming no snow, and clear road conditions. Most of the time, this road has no traffic at all in either direction.

The idea is that collecting this data will hopefully show the effects of air temperature on the coast down numbers as summer approaches.

With information in hand, one may be able to perform constant speed road testing during calm conditions (which is hard to find in it's own right) and use the temperature guide as a way to correlate different runs on different days, with varying temperatures. The temperature greatly affects the molecular density of the air, and thus the overall drag component. Come to think of it, the temperature also affects the Crr component as well.

I still favor making multiple runs with one setup, on one day, maybe making drastic changes to the car on the weekend, then testing those changes on the way to work.

Maybe not as clean and consistent as doing all the changes in one day, but adding under body panels AND the tail extension to the car would take multiple hours to accomplish just one change.

Practicality speaks!!

Jim.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by 3-Wheeler

...it takes about 1.5 hours just to jack up the car high enough to be able to remove all the body panels from underneath the car. And they are held on with lots of fasteners.

And those fasteners tend to break on removal after they've been exposed to the elements for a few years, and they are not cheap. Though FYI, you can find them online much cheaper than from the Honda dealer.