The dirty cost of one man's hypermiling?

[cfg83]

Arctic Fox -

Originally Posted by Arctic Fox

Forgive me if this info has already been posted somewhere;

My VW Passat has a "secondary air intake". It's a small blower that pumps fresh air into the exhaust, after the turbo, before the cat, and is suppose to heat the cat quicker on cold starts.

At startup, it turns on (sounds like a hair dryer) for about 30 seconds. Sometimes it will turn on again for another 15 seconds.

Just something for you guys to think about.

I've got one too. It's currently clogged (error code P0410), but I was allowed to pass smog (twice) because it's only a startup failure. I've read that mine won't start up if the coolant is above 140 degrees F. The idea is that the ECU/PCM infers that the engine is still toasty, therefore it will warm up the cat ASAP.

CarloSW2

[fidalgoman]

Now you've kicked the hornets nest. True or not for the majority of P&G driven vehicles yours is the first that has presented any real data. You're right about catalytic converters needing to be kept hot to reduce hydrocarbons, All you have to do is have an exhaust sensor at the tailpipe for prove the point. Kind of like when Mythbusters busted the motorcycle vs car pollution test. Things are not always what they seem. One way or the other.

[cfg83]

fidalgoman -

Originally Posted by fidalgoman

Now you've kicked the hornets nest. True or not for the majority of P&G driven vehicles yours is the first that has presented any real data. You're right about catalytic converters needing to be kept hot to reduce hydrocarbons, All you have to do is have an exhaust sensor at the tailpipe for prove the point. Kind of like when Mythbusters busted the motorcycle vs car pollution test. Things are not always what they seem. One way or the other.

The temp probe I mention in an earlier post can be used to trigger alarms :

... This temperature switch can be set anywhere up to 1200 degrees celsius, so it is extremely versatile. The relay can be used to trigger an extra thermo fan on an intercooler, mount a sensor near your turbo manifold and trigger water spray cooling, or a simple buzzer or light to warn you of a high [or LOW!] temperature. The LCD, which can easily be dash mounted, displays the temperature all the time. kit supplied with a quality solder masked PCB with overlay, LCD panel, temperature probe and all electronic components. ...

In this way the alarm would go off when the temp gets too low. If you could have an alarm for low and *high*, then you could engineer a cat-insulation mechanism that you can also turn on/off while you are driving.

CarloSW2

[SentraSE-R]

Originally Posted by dcb

except for HC, things generally got worse in the third test, after all the driving.

The reason I am interested in WHY you are getting these readings is because that has implications for what to do about it.

You assert it is the cat

It could be the ECU, the first run could be interpreted as a slightly rich mixture from what I can tell, and not the cat, i.e. a software problem.

It could be an o2 sensor.

It could be contamination from another system.

We simply don't know, not enough data or testing, why is this such a hard concept? You are claiming p&g makes long term changes to a cat, and really haven't demonstrated that except by repeated assertion. Make sense of the data first, I have posted links to numerous effects of catalytic converters under different conditions, the observed readings do not yet make sense to me.

You overlook the obvious. Software problems, oxygen sensors, and vacuum leaks do not heal themselves. If you suspect them, you have to come up with an explanation that makes them go back to normal after a 900 mile drive.

As for the NOX, my lower grill block was still installed for the third "test," which took place on a warmer day. The third test isn't comparable to the first two, anyway.

Oil blowby? Heaven forbid! Visible pollution is an automatic fail. You can see from the smog tests that the car has <70k miles

CACivic, Yes, I'll record distances, and take pix.

[mcrews]

I just had my Q45 smogged and did a spreadsheet showing mine and yours.
as a note: I do not hypermile.
I do drive for economy.
Thought the similarity in our # was interesting.

[SentraSE-R]

Interesting, indeed, Mark. I think we need a bigger sample. I wonder if my smog test shop can pull a summary of 2006 cars they've tested. I'd have thought my 2006 emissions levels would be more stringent.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by SentraSE-R

You overlook the obvious.

You jump to conclusions and use sensationalist language without sufficient rigor.

[mcrews]

I am surprised that the 'ave' (average) numbers are so low.....
That is the average of all passing vehicles....
both of us are pretty high on hydrocarbons.

[SentraSE-R]

I'm surprised, too, Mark. It could be my 70k engine is as tired as your 255k engine, the listed averages are understated, or?

Originally Posted by dcb

You jump to conclusions and use sensationalist language without sufficient rigor.

I am a scientist by training. You want to chase windmills, go ahead. It's obvious you don't understand the scientific method. That's the end of this discussion with you.

[dcb]

You have far less training in scientific method than me, I assure you. This is another invalid conclusion you have jumped to. You are a conclusion in search of the facts, since you only look at the facts that support your conclusion. Enjoy your witch hunt, end of discussion.