The Dishonesty of Car Companies

[jcp123]

Isn't it between the muffler bearing grease and flux capacitor feeler gauges?

Oh, and on the subject of carbs...my Carter is super easy. Change out metering rods twice a year, takes just a couple of minutes and a small torx. You can also change out the rod springs at the same time if you were so inclined.

[niky]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Well, you win some, you lose some. Don't have enough personal experience to say, but my guess is that, averaged over the whole fleet, the savings on maintenance &c of hydraulic PS would more than make up for the cost of the rare but expensive EPS failure.

Not that rare, actually. As early cars with EPAS get older, the failure rates go up. It's already a big talking point with early Honda Fits, which makes for good business selling reconditioned surplus racks!

Whether the failure rates would be different with similarly-specced hydraulic systems, I don't know. Yes... if you ignore a hydraulic leak for long enough, you'll need to replace the entire hydraulic rack, too... but it rarely gets that far.

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Over the past several years, doing slalom tests, I've experienced overload and loss of assist with many electric power steering systems... sometimes on the second or third turn of the wheel! But new hydraulic systems, seemingly sized, also, for fuel economy rather than heavy duty use, also experience a loss of assist quite easily... as cavitation starts within the hydraulic rack the moment you have to saw at it. Not great in an emergency.

Of course, if the rack is properly built, it should last a long time. Took us two dozen straight slalom runs to heat up the electric rack on the new MINI to the point where it lost assist. After that, let it cool down... no problem. Most hydraulic racks, even on sports cars, will see fluid cavitation with use that extreme, too.

Again... this seems driven mostly by fuel economy requirements (which force manufacturers to spec steering systems with less parasitic load) than anything else. Personally, I think crazy economy requirements will eventually force a return to completely manual steering racks. At which point:

Originally Posted by jcp123

we'd have auto journos breaking out the champagne

[Grant-53]

As the cars get lighter power steering will be less necessary. My petite daughter bought her first car, a 2000 GM Metro 1.3L 4dr. It has AC and an automatic transmission but no power steering. She is quite content. Go figure. Sadly not everyone who sells cars has quality in mind. Hence the saga of Pinto gas tanks or Corvair suspensions that would have been fine if the right components had been included. The long selling Toyota Corolla is the best example of value for money.

[jcp123]

If I weren't already married, I'd want to marry your daughter.
Manual steering ain't that bad...

[XYZ]

Originally Posted by niky

I like electronic throttles better than cable throttles... they're cheap and easy to replace. But while EPS requires less fiddly fluid changes, belt changes and hose maintenance... you can repair a leaky hydraulic rack... most electric racks are built to be non-service items (ergo... no replacement parts... whole assemblies only).

Okay, guys. I dislike jargon and acronyms in general.

"EPS"? First I checked Wiki, (which lead me to "earnings per share".) I fully understand what that means. Then I checked the Ecomodder glossary for EPS, but it turned up nothing under "E".

I can guess at what it might mean. But guesswork can be inaccurate as well as annoying.

Maybe I'm not the only one here who dislikes newspeak. So please provide a definition that can be added to the glossary.

So - after having read other posts, is it Electric Power Steering?

If so, please tell us when this innovation first hit the car market. Then tell us why it is better. Then predict how long it might last - without failure.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by jcp123

I'd also venture to say that as much as EPS is panned for its lack of road feel, we'd have auto journos breaking out the champagne if hydraulic systems were put back in greater use. The average driver couldn't care less though.

Personally, I'd be quite happy without either sort of power steering. It's one of those things, like automatic transmissions, that IMHO are only useful as assistive devices for the physically handicapped.

FWIW, the only EPS system I have significant experience with, the Insight's, has plenty of road feel - maybe too much :-)

[niky]

Originally Posted by XYZ

Okay, guys. I dislike jargon and acronyms in general.

Power steering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry, pretty common to read the term EPS on other sites. It's like the ABS of the past decade...

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Personally, I'd be quite happy without either sort of power steering....

+1 on smaller cars.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

A few decades ago, even the full-size trucks were available with non-assisted steering, relying on the steering gear ratio and the diameter of the steering wheel to reduce the effort required. I guess it would be OK in a modern half-ton...