Does it frustrate you too?

[gone-ot]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

I was going to say that apart from the Luftwaffe nobody did GDI much until the 1990s.

One of the big advantages of the Me109 vs the Spitfire (apart from outright speed) in the Battle of Britain was the FI system - a Spitfire would roll and the float in the carb would block the fuel flow causing the engine to miss for a few seconds - that killed as well as saved quite a few RAF pilots in close combat. The Spitfire could turn quicker though, but only the right way up.

Thats a couple of years before the B17s arrived BTW - someone was late - again

...here's what wiki says about the Wright R-3350 Duplex-Cyclone:

"...Early versions of the R-3350 were equipped with carburetors, though it was the poorly designed elbow, or entrance to the supercharger that led to serious problems with inconsistent fuel/air distribution. Near the end of World War II, in late 1944, the system was changed to use direct injection where fuel was injected directly into the combustion chamber. This change improved engine reliability immediately. After the war the engine was redesigned, and became a favorite for large aircraft of all designs, most notably the Lockheed Constellation and Douglas DC-7."

...the same engines were also used on USN Lockheed P2V Neptunes, as well as on the USAF Fairchild C-119's, among others, including the WWII Boeing B-29.

...some info: http://www.enginehistory.org/Wright/TC%20Facts.pdf

[user removed]

The B29s had terrible problems with the same engine. FI solved the problem. If you gave a 29 full throttle at sea level and lower altitudes it could blow the cylinder heads right off the engine, not a situation you wanted with ten tons of explosives in the bomb bay.

regards
Mech

[gone-ot]

...a "back-to-the-original-point" summary: Gasoline Direct Injection (GDI) has been around since the 1940's...that's over 70 years...and it's only "recently" (and under the new threatened EPA 56 mpg CAFE) that Detroit has seen fit to start using it.

...and, THAT is simply another example of Detroits' "feet dragging", ie: never do MORE than the Government (or Common Sense) absolutely requires!

[Arragonis]

Apologies - I seem to be putting long posts in here...

Originally Posted by jamesqf

But appreciate the very significant difference between the Japanese going into Europe and the Japanese going into the US. In Europe, the Japanese were offering similiar-sized products to what European mfgs were producing, so they had to compete on price, quality, & service. In the US, they had that very underpopulated small car (and small pickup) niche waiting for them.

Yep - and they arrived in the US just as fuel costs started to rise too. People bought them to save money on petrol and then found the quality was far better than the domestic products they had stuck with for years.

They arrived in Europe just when domestic makers were starting to dump the smaller dealers in favour of the main dealer network. Those dealers were expected to disappear, instead they took up franchises for those funny looking chrome covered cars from Japan that never went wrong.

BTW WE helped them be better than we were too.

Just after WW2 Nissan approached Austin in Birmingham about making CKD (Completely Knocked Down - aka kits) versions of British cars to get their industry going - before WW2 the Japanese car industry was very primitive even for the times.

As a result of the deal, this automotive symbol of Britiain in the 1950s was actually made and sold in Japan :



However because of the resentment some Brits had against the Japanese (e.g. treatment of prisoners during WW2) they gave the visitors a very hard time.

The idea was that Nissan would start to make more and more parts locally but Austin would have to approve any part used for quality first. Because of the bad feeling the Austin engineers rejected most parts for the first 2-3 versions automatically until they were so perfect they couldn't be refused.

These parts were 2-3 times better than the ones being put onto cars in the UK which in turn made their cars more reliable and needing less maintenance over time. When the first cars were shipped back to the UK for inspection the management in the UK was amazed at the quality.

The theory goes that Nissan's engineers learned how to impose such high quality standards in mass manufacturing from this.

Also the engine in most Nissans until the Mid-1970s is quite similar to the B-series engine made by Austin - as used in the MGB.

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

...a "back-to-the-original-point" summary: Gasoline Direct Injection (GDI) has been around since the 1940's...
...and, THAT is simply another example of Detroits' "feet dragging", ie: never do MORE than the Government (or Common Sense) absolutely requires!

Not sure I buy into the "conspiracy" (e.g. oil owns the car industry) or "lazy" theories behind this - I think its just the technology becoming cheap and reliable enough to use.

The main duty of any corporation is to increase the capital and return of its investors. Any kind of technical advance is really only going to done for one of three reasons - legislation (e.g. emissions or FE standards), competition (we must have x because they have it or if we have it we are ahead and can sell more or at a higher price) or costs (including x replaces and is cheaper than y).

DI for diesels was around for a long time in commercial vehicles where it had improved FE and become reliable enough to make it viable in vehicles that cover hundreds of thousands of miles each year. Scaling that down to a car which maybe does max 50k miles a year (but more likely 10-20K) and making it work in faster revving car engines took quite a long time. There were also some promising blind-alleys like the PD system used by VW for a while.

DI for petrol is not a mature technology - yet. It will become commonplace on high end vehicles first and then move down to the common vehicle - just like Xenon headlights and ABS systems and EBD and stability control and even the in-car phone.

[gone-ot]

...when I called GM "Customer Assistance" about our 2011 Chevrolet Cruze LTZ, asking "why?" it didn't have their Spark Ignition Direct Injection (SIDI) like their 2.4L and V6 engines did, the reply was: "...we could reach our MPG goal without it." DUH?

...FWIW, the 1.8L engine in my 2009 Pontiac Vibe (nee' Toyota Matrix) is SIDI.

[cfg83]

Arragonis -

Originally Posted by Arragonis

...

BTW WE helped them be better than we were too.

...

Don't forget Deming!!!!

W. Edwards Deming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

William Edwards Deming (October 14, 1900 – December 20, 1993) was an American statistician, professor, author, lecturer, and consultant. He is perhaps best known for his work in Japan. There, from 1950 onward, he taught top management how to improve design (and thus service), product quality, testing and sales (the last through global markets) through various methods, including the application of statistical methods.

Deming made a significant contribution to Japan's later reputation for innovative high-quality products and its economic power. He is regarded as having had more impact upon Japanese manufacturing and business than any other individual not of Japanese heritage. Despite being considered something of a hero in Japan, he was only just beginning to win widespread recognition in the U.S. at the time of his death.

...

He worked with H.F. Dodge, A.G. Ashcroft, Leslie E. Simon, R.E. Wareham, and John Gaillard in the compilation of the American War Standards (American Standards Association Z1.1-3 published in 1942) and taught statistical process control (SPC) techniques to workers engaged in wartime production. Statistical methods were widely applied during World War II, but faded into disuse a few years later in the face of huge overseas demand for American mass-produced products.
...

JUSE members had studied Shewhart's techniques, and as part of Japan's reconstruction efforts, they sought an expert to teach statistical control. During June–August 1950, Deming trained hundreds of engineers, managers, and scholars in statistical process control (SPC) and concepts of quality. He also conducted at least one session for top management.(The list includes top Japanese industrialists the likes of Akio Morita the co-founder of Sony Corp) Deming's message to Japan's chief executives: improving quality will reduce expenses while increasing productivity and market share. Perhaps the best known of these management lectures was delivered at the Mt. Hakone Conference Center in August 1950.

A number of Japanese manufacturers applied his techniques widely and experienced theretofore unheard-of levels of quality and productivity. The improved quality combined with the lowered cost created new international demand for Japanese products.

...

Deming, Deming, Deming of the USA!!!

CarloSW2

[ecofreak]

What kills me is this: Automakers refuse to introduce diesel passenger cars, instead opting for electric hybrid cars, which are terrible for the environment in comparison. Also, they can't even pull an all-electric car! The Leaf is the only one, and Tesla is impractical.

How pathetic. even in the Brass Era we'd have a half-half electric-gas car ratio. Today, in an era of cheap electronics, we can manage only a handful.

[Kodak]

Originally Posted by ecofreak

What kills me is this: Automakers refuse to introduce diesel passenger cars, instead opting for electric hybrid cars, which are terrible for the environment in comparison.

Because of all the mining required to attain lithium (plus manufacture it)?

Wind turbines can produce electricity as long as there is wind; whereas diesel comes in limited supply.

[SwamiSalami]

Much of the epa's ratings as well as advertised numbers are hype. The only way to be sure is to drive the car for yourself.

sure, they're making cars and trucks more efficient today than yesterday, but they're still a long way from achieving the numbers our little community does in our compacts and subcompacts.

It's in the interest of the automakers to appeal to people who want new cars and don't want to feel guilty for getting crappy mileage. They'll tell these consumers anything they want to hear to get the turds off the shelves and into their pockets.

[cleanspeed1]

Originally Posted by Kodak

Because of all the mining required to attain lithium (plus manufacture it)?

Wind turbines can produce electricity as long as there is wind; whereas diesel comes in limited supply.

Diesel fuel is the dregs from producing gasoline, and in proportion is not "limited" per se. Besides, diesel fuel can be produced from other sources aside from petroleum.

As far as the batteries are concerned, there are other chemistries and styles out there that could get the job done, but as long as there is a high demand/short supply situation that can be exploited, the other things will not be pursued.

I look at the satellites that orbit our earth for years on end. They have batteries don't they? What kind of batteries do they have?