E85-Fueled Engine Cuts CO2 by Up to 80%, Cummins Says

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

Brazil has some market for corn ethanol too, but it's mostly restricted to Mato Grosso state where some ethanol mills are "flex" and can alternate from sugarcane to corn and sorghum according to the season and the harvest. Actually, the ethanol is often pointed as a byproduct of the processing of corn in order to get the high-protein DDG which has been more popular as a livestock food due to the prices lower than soy-based products.

Anyway, E85 is a stupidity, back here we have used pure E96h ethanol (with about 4% water content) since the military regime.

I am sure our E85 is hydrated in the more humid areas too.

E85 is about as fossil fuel free as most synthetic motor oils.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

The 15% gasoline content is enough to ensure good cold start performance in all but the coldest climes. Brazil has less issues with the temperature extremes.

There are issues with temperature extremes back here too, mostly in the South and Southeast. Anyway, back here a small supplementary tank for gasoline was prevalent to ensure cold-starts, but nowadays is getting outdated due to electric pre-heating of the injectors rail becoming more common.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

The 15% gasoline content is enough to ensure good cold start performance in all but the coldest climes. Brazil has less issues with the temperature extremes.

yes but it would be unnecessary even in 40 below if the car was equipt with a injector warmer, glow plug or gas/ether tank.

The environmental and energy cost of having that 15% mixed in is horrendous compared to having a simple heater or aux fuel tank for starting purposes.

Cheers
Ryan

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

The environmental and energy cost of having that 15% mixed in is horrendous compared to having a simple heater or aux fuel tank for starting purposes.

Drying the ethanol to take away most of that 4% water content is kinda energy-intensive, but what makes me oppose to E85 is the gasoline blend. A few months ago there were some proposals to replace the local E96h with E85 in order to allow Petrobras to import a lower-quality gasoline to be used in the blend, but the ethanol producers opposed to that mostly because of the higher costs to remove that small water content. Ethanol is already facing a harsh competition because the gasoline prices have been politically used in a failed attempt to control the inflation.

[elhigh]

I've thought E85 missed a few important points in the past; its terrific octane rating leaves a lot of potential on the table in conventional engines. So Cummins adapted an engine for E85-only operation, well and good. Could you run their "Ethos" engine on E0 safely, or would it be a detonating mess? By the PR it's E85 or nothing.

[RustyLugNut]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

yes but it would be unnecessary even in 40 below if the car was equipt with a injector warmer, glow plug or gas/ether tank.

The environmental and energy cost of having that 15% mixed in is horrendous compared to having a simple heater or aux fuel tank for starting purposes.

Cheers
Ryan

. . . with specialty equipment is also a high cost. A cost that directly impacts the market and results in a no-go situation. Ecomodders often forget what works for us does not always translate to the general public. A simple change in materials and an algorithm added to the fuel system logic allows ANY modern gasoline engine to operate on E85. Since, at this time, all North American vehicles are designed to operate with alcohol and have oxygen sensing feedback loops, this is the first step in moving away from fossil fueled vehicles. As Oilpan pointed out, our ethanol and methanol pathways have too much fossil fuel input. But that can, and will change, as cellulostic ethanol and waste gas synthetic methanol become available. Even gasoline will be sourced from waste streams or benign resources.

First steps. That is all E85 is.

Also, the addition of gasoline ties up many of the weak molecular bonding sites that make ethanol so hygroscopic reducing its affinity for the water in the air.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by elhigh

Could you run their "Ethos" engine on E0 safely, or would it be a detonating mess?

It may be all about injection and ignition timing, but I would rather trust it to work with CNG which also has a higher resistence to pre-ignition than gasoline.

[RustyLugNut]

Originally Posted by elhigh

I've thought E85 missed a few important points in the past; its terrific octane rating leaves a lot of potential on the table in conventional engines. So Cummins adapted an engine for E85-only operation, well and good. Could you run their "Ethos" engine on E0 safely, or would it be a detonating mess? By the PR it's E85 or nothing.

It is designed to run on E85. If you desire to run on E0 (straight gasoline) there are a plethora of engines that do so already. A simple fuel density circuit in the tank can indicate the presence of E85 or not and can prevent accidental mis-fueling.

People are probably asking "why" for the use of E85 in a heavy payload vehicle. It provides a bridge in the gap for regional transport. CNG is seen as a local fleet fuel. Diesel is your long haul fuel of choice. E85 allows you much longer range than CNG as well as rapid refueling though it cannot compete with diesel in availability in most regions.

[elhigh]

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

It is designed to run on E85. If you desire to run on E0 (straight gasoline) there are a plethora of engines that do so already. A simple fuel density circuit in the tank can indicate the presence of E85 or not and can prevent accidental mis-fueling.

People are probably asking "why" for the use of E85 in a heavy payload vehicle. It provides a bridge in the gap for regional transport. CNG is seen as a local fleet fuel. Diesel is your long haul fuel of choice. E85 allows you much longer range than CNG as well as rapid refueling though it cannot compete with diesel in availability in most regions.

I was thinking more along the lines of E85 as an agricultural fuel. Keeping the ethanol use close to where it's generated cuts out a lot of infrastructural waste hauling it about, spillage etc. Of course the vast majority of existing ag engines are diesel, but the other thing I was thinking was repowering options for existing medium and small tractors, and post-purchase flexibility for the owners. There isn't a lot of E85 to be had where I am either, for instance - though if I wanted to run a tractor with LPG there's a KOA with a refueling station just down the road. I think it's pretty important to have a choice that has lots of support so you don't wind up buying a white elephant.

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by Cobb

More importantly, cant it "Roll Coal"?

That's what was said about the shift to computer controlling diesel engines.