Early Hybrid: Insight vs. Prius vs. Civic

[cfg83]

Jim-Bob -

Originally Posted by Jim-Bob

Doesn't the Prius allow for partial electric-only drive? If so it makes sense then. That would also allow me to do a plug in conversion for a little more electric-only range and maybe even add some solar cells to the roof for charging during the day.

I always found the Insight I to be sort of cool for being a no-compromise solution to fuel efficiency. If the Prius I makes more sense though I will start shopping for one of those instead.

The Prius in Europe had a button you could push to put the car in electric-mode only :

Toyota's Prius in Europe gets a button we don't — Autoblog - June 2006

Ever stare at that spot on your dash that has a piece of plastic where a button should be? Ever wonder what that button would do if it were installed? More and more Prius owners are finding out that that empty spot on their dashes is occupied on Euro-spec Prius models by a button that switches the hybrid into electric-only mode while driving locally at low speeds.

...

Fear not, though. The Prius has already proved to be immensely hackable and computer geeks have already discovered how to enable that missing button's function in North American models. This article from CNET also shows how far Prius hacking can go, including one that allows the nav system to be operated at speed as well as while the vehicle's in Park.

Prius EV Mode Button - EAA-PHEV

Enabling the EV Mode Button, The secret missing feature.
The EV Mode Button is a standard part of the Japan and EU Prius but was not installed in the US versions, perhaps because of extended warranties in Ca due to AT-PZEV regulations and qualifications criteria. The US Prius is still entirely aware of the EV Mode though it can never get the signal or command to enter or exit the mode because the wire and button are missing. EV Mode is a very enlightening feature as it encourages the Prius to stay in its electric mode for far longer than it normally would. It will normally drive 1 to 2 miles on a fully charged battery, after which it must restart the engine using gasoline to recharge the battery. It is not a good idea to fully cycle the battery often as this decreases any battery's life and is not helpful for mileage if used improperly. If used correctly is can be advantageous for times when you know you won't need to start the engine. It's also fun for showing off and offers a small glimpse of the potential of electric vehicles.

CarloSW2

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by Jim-Bob

At any rate, does anyone have an answer to the original question posed? The insurance thing is not going to be solved as I have already exhausted my options there.

You are in FLORIDA delivering PIZZAS. Didn't see my pizza delivery scooter post?

[RobertSmalls]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

You are in FLORIDA delivering PIZZAS. Didn't see my pizza delivery scooter post?

I've delivered pizzas on a moped in Florida.

So if insurance makes it prohibitively expensive to have two cars on the road, ditch the truck and hitch a trailer to a Prius.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

You are in FLORIDA delivering PIZZAS. Didn't see my pizza delivery scooter post?

To be honest I would check that if I were him. Knowing the government that would be $5k a year instead.

If he has no real worldly possessions worth a whole lot it pays to be completely uninsured. More and more I find this to be totally true for most americans who own nothing including their house. If your paying a morgage you likely don't really own the house.

If you get in a bind and owe $10 mill what are they going to do? Take your $250 car? Take your house you owe more on than its worth?

Just remember at the hospital don't sign in as that verbage includes signing the ability for the hospital to collect any possessions you have to pay and to be able to harass you after filing bankrupcy.

[Jim-Bob]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

You are in FLORIDA delivering PIZZAS. Didn't see my pizza delivery scooter post?

In summer, we get thunderstorms every single day during the height of delivery time. Plus, scooters in Florida require a motorcycle training course and license (true mopeds incapable of more than 30 mph do not). That and I couldn't carry 10-15 pizzas on the back of a scooter for commercial orders. Also, my company does not allow the use of scooters and mopeds for delivery due to their insurance ( I checked years ago). Hell, they won't even let me build a wood gas powered pickup truck or even give me the excess fryer grease from the wing fryer for delivery work. If they would then I would be driving petroleum free!

[Frank Lee]

Oh I see. My deliveries were always onesie-twosies.

Still, I don't see how you can come out better with a truck. Local yocals deliver pizzas with full-size 4x4s Ha Ha, figure 10 or less mpg then figure the other costs/mile in, then figure their pathetic wage in my two-bit town, and I have to conclude that they are only doing it for the fun of it.

[Jim-Bob]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Oh I see. My deliveries were always onesie-twosies.

Still, I don't see how you can come out better with a truck. Local yocals deliver pizzas with full-size 4x4s Ha Ha, figure 10 or less mpg then figure the other costs/mile in, then figure their pathetic wage in my two-bit town, and I have to conclude that they are only doing it for the fun of it.

Well, my truck is a compact, not a full size! It's a 362,000 mile 1998 Nissan Frontier king cab 4x2 with a 2.4 liter DOHC KA24DE under the hood, a 5 speed manual trans and 3.54 gears. It used to get 24 mpg delivering until they started with this whole RFG and E10 nonsense.... Now it sees 21-22 mpg delivering. The cost offset with the Metro in regards to fuel would be around $150 a month but that is exactly what the extra charge is for the Metro's insurance. Therefore, both items negate each other and there is no economic advantage to the Metro. I am still going to try and find a way to save on gas in the near future, but losing the truck's utility for no financial benefit makes no sense. Right now I can use the truck to do light hauling for extra cash as well as use it to do mechanical work out of.

The truck will probably get it's own build thread soon. Once I am rid of the Metro I will be modding the Frontier for improved MPG. I just found a nice stash of old coroplast signs at work that are mine for the taking and will become a grille block. I also plan to lower the truck about 4 inches with lowering blocks and an adjustment to the torsion bars. A garden edging air dam and possibly side skirts may also be used if I think they will work. I also just found a bed topper at the junkyard but am debating the benefits versus the fuel needed to accelerate the extra mass. Likewise, that Frontier also had factory cruise control that will find it's way to mine if it is still there the next time I go. If all goes well I hope to push it to 25 mpg city and just shy of 30 highway.


(Pic is from 2 years ago when the truck just turned 300,000 miles. It's a one owner vehicle too.)

And my Cutlass after I finished the body and paint. A few trim details remain...

This car had a 360hp Chevy 350 and only gets 15 mpg city/21 mpg highway. (My target was 17/25) It was my first delivery car from the days of $1 a gallon gas and still sees occasional delivery work when no other car is available.

[bestclimb]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

To be honest I would check that if I were him. Knowing the government that would be $5k a year instead.

If he has no real worldly possessions worth a whole lot it pays to be completely uninsured. More and more I find this to be totally true for most americans who own nothing including their house. If your paying a morgage you likely don't really own the house.

If you get in a bind and owe $10 mill what are they going to do? Take your $250 car? Take your house you owe more on than its worth?

Just remember at the hospital don't sign in as that verbage includes signing the ability for the hospital to collect any possessions you have to pay and to be able to harass you after filing bankrupcy.

It may pay financially but to risk causing property damage and/or injury with no way or intention to pay for it is irresponsible.

[Jim-Bob]

Originally Posted by bestclimb

It may pay financially but to risk causing property damage and/or injury with no way or intention to pay for it is irresponsible.

Exactly. Plus, I am a Christian and doing things like that ruins my peace of mind. God will not let me rest if I do such things until I set it right. Having gone through that before over this very issue I don't wish to do it again. The life of faith is not always the easiest one but I have found it to be by far the most rewarding. Faith, after all, is not just lived out by believing in the power of the Cross for salvation but by choosing to follow what you know is right and believing that God will work it out to his good and yours if you trust him and do that which is honorable.

[Daox]

Originally Posted by Jim-Bob

The cost offset with the Metro in regards to fuel would be around $150 a month but that is exactly what the extra charge is for the Metro's insurance. Therefore, both items negate each other and there is no economic advantage to the Metro.

...

Plus, I am a Christian and doing things like that ruins my peace of mind.

If you are breaking even financially (gas vs insurance), I think its more than worth it to keep the Metro due to other benefits. First of all, you aren't further wearing out a vehicle with over 360k miles on it. This prolongs its life and prevents you from needing to buy a newer vehicle sooner, and is thus actually large financial benefit. Second, there are environmental benefits which IMO should be weighed especially since you are a Christian (protecting God's creation).

Perhaps I'm missing something, but are there any downsides?

Also, if you put the Metro on the business insurance, I'm guessing you can remove the Frontier from the business insurance and thus get a price cut?


Sorry for going on about keeping the Metro. I don't mean to be a pest, but I think there are some things left to consider.