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Old 12-03-2023, 10:02 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Question Eco racing?

Firstly long time no see guys i have to write in this forum for a while so today question is how to make a eco track car ? Lets justify what i mean a eco track car , a car which will get a great mileage in the track when it's pushed to the limit now i will tell you my ideas and i want you to tell me also yours or suggestions.

Firstly i believe in order to create a efficient track car its gonna be either fwd or rwd

Second i believe weight is the biggest solution instead of decreasing fuel economy with more horsepower (not always) horsepower can help you with higher top speed ,

Next is the right transmission which help a lot with economy but not all exist in the market which can provide both racing and economy advantages

Next is the aero which hard because in order to have more downforce the most times we need to create more drag to be more stable the only advantage we can have is the frontal area in order to decrease fuel economy

Lastly i thought is the fuel type (forget electric motors or hydrogen) maybe diesel is the solution in eco track car i know its pretty rare to see diesel power race cars due to weight of engines and how unpractical they are but we seen audi in le mans doing it so why not . Diesel cars can have the advantage of engine efficiency and more torque.
Last is the suspension which i believe they are not any improvements we can do in order to have more efficiency and both great handling what are your suggestions building a eco track car any improvements you might think

Goal is a efficient track car nothing to crazy

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Old 12-03-2023, 02:42 PM   #2 (permalink)
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An efficient track car, or a winning one?

For downforce without drag, look to Colani C-Form or Gordon Murray T.50 (it's all in the underbody).
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Old 12-03-2023, 03:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
An efficient track car, or a winning one?

For downforce without drag, look to Colani C-Form or Gordon Murray T.50 (it's all in the underbody).
A combination ,trying to go efficient isn't practical in Motorsport but something that can keep up with others car
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Old 12-03-2023, 06:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
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If only the winners ran, the interest would be sparse.

Witness the LeMons races, which has an Effluency Index.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Index of Effluency (or IOE) is the top prize awarded in the 24 Hours of LeMons automotive racing series. General criteria to win this award is a car that is too unreliable to be driven effectively on the streets yet manages to complete a decent number of laps on the race track. IOE can be awarded to a vehicle that was deemed unreliable from the factory (e.g. Volkswagen Karmann Ghia) or a more reliable car with an unwise engine transplant (e.g. Ford Thunderbird with a BMW diesel engine). The award is named after the "Index of Thermal Efficiency", a prize briefly given in LeMons' namesake the 24 Hours of Le Mans to the car that scored the highest based on a complex formula that took into account car weight, fuel usage and average speed.
https://jalopnik.com: This Weird Panhard Is The King of Le Mans Efficiency

Quote:
The Mk1 Ford GT40 was introduced to Le Mans in 1964. That’s something you immediately think of as having a low slung and slippery shape, right? That car with its “Le Mans nose” is quoted as having a coefficient of drag in the 0.35 range. What did this little Panhard streamliner achieve? Its coefficient of drag is a Le Mans record of 0.12. That’s absurdly low!

So we’ve established that the CD LM64 is extremely aerodynamically efficient. It was also extremely light weight at just 1230 pounds. Add in a supercharged 848cc flat-twin engine with 78 horsepower and you get a car that can run at 137 MPH at flat chat.

While I realize how incredibly dangerous it would be for such a thing to exist in 2019, I would have loved to have seen a modern streamliner out on track this weekend with a 250cc motorcycle engine revving to 19,000 rpm and a hybrid electric motor and active aero getting 60 miles per gallon or something equally absurd in race trim.
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Old 12-03-2023, 08:20 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Are you trying to win races, or is this just for fun? If it's just for fun, start with a small and lightweight car and upgrade the suspension and tires. Keeping your speed up in the turns will reduce fuel consumption and be fun. A flat "belly pan" under the car will increase downforce and reduce drag.
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Old 12-04-2023, 11:57 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I wonder if a car using an electric motor to drive with just the right size battery and generator to load level the power per lap. A dual motor setup might be better for regen braking front and rear. This way you use a higher hp electic motor and a lower hp generator, but the generator runs at peak BSFC. The battery supplies the accelation surge energy, and recharges braking and in the corners.

So say you took a model S plaid and removed about 4/5 of the battery. Replaced that weight with a 1.5 l turbo Honda engine making 205hp running a generator. So for a few seconds say 5 you use 1000hp, then your generator needs the 5 you accelerate, plus 20 more seconds to recharge the power used. The braking regen could cover the charging losses. Then you can accelerate again with 1000hp
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Old 12-05-2023, 11:20 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Acceptable idea, however theres charge lag and other storage to power inneficiencys including dissipation of excess heat. Fast generally means stuff gets hot. Real fast means real hot.
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Old 12-05-2023, 10:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Peugeot DV6 engines have been reported to be surprisingly fast when properly tuned, and more reliable than the DW10. Drop one into a Peugeot 106 or 206 and call it a day.
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Old 12-10-2023, 09:43 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I recall years back seeing a video where a Prius was driven at 10/10 around a track, and a some expensive sports car (V8 Ferrari?) was driven right behind it. The Ferrari got better fuel economy.

Reason being, the 4 cylinder Prius engine was running way outside its efficient range, whereas the Ferrari's was just about dead center in its, driving at what was probably closer to 4/10 for that vehicle.

Mercedes have experimented with fuel efficiency in their Formula cars, using turbines in the exhaust to recover heat energy into electricity. I believe their thermal efficiency approached 50%.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsp...ne-efficiency/

It helped in racing because they spent more time doing laps and less time refueling, even if the equipment to bring up the efficiency slowed it down.
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Old 12-14-2023, 09:36 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
I recall years back seeing a video where a Prius was driven at 10/10 around a track, and a some expensive sports car (V8 Ferrari?) was driven right behind it. The Ferrari got better fuel economy.

Reason being, the 4 cylinder Prius engine was running way outside its efficient range, whereas the Ferrari's was just about dead center in its, driving at what was probably closer to 4/10 for that vehicle.
No wonder some Brazilian econobox with a 1.0L engine due to lower taxation, while having a slightly better fuel economy in city traffic, won't be so much better than the same model with a 1.6L engine instead.

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