Ecotransport mashup

[sendler]

Originally Posted by nickec

only real life testing can assuage our concerns.

I'm just trying to save you some trouble. Craig Vetter has already experimented with all of this many years ago and found that he had to remove the doors from his design as it was dangerous in the wind. And that was without the roof which has huge leverage to blow you off line because it is so high.

[nickec]

Two words: mountain passes.

A convertible top and crank windows makes a good daydream.

[Grant-53]

The back angle is the main factor in overall height. In my car I go for 25-30 degree tilt back. On my bike I tip forward 35-45 degrees. For my scooter I am adding aero bars and will get 25 degrees forward tilt comfortably. Since the scooters have their CG lower and farther back than a standard motorcycle it is important to have adequate tail. I plan for a longer shell both front and rear than your current drawing. I want more crush zone and smoother airflow. The cross wind issue cannot be underestimated. See the fairing on Vic Valdez's bike. However if the cross section has curved sides with the top having a larger radius than the bottom, a fairly stable shape can be had. I have seen designs for a three joint folding convertible hard top. Sliding windows are simple enough. Windshield wiping and defogging the windows is a bit more challenging.

[Xist]

Isn't there a 250 MPG enclosed scooter thread on here? I remember reading about that at least two years ago.

[Grant-53]

I have been at this awhile and don't recall a thread in the last 4 1/2 years. A quick search didn't come up with a hit on 'scooter 250 mpg' sorry to say. Such a machine would be possible especially if the bike had a gearbox instead of a CVT. We are more likely to see a 125cc motorcycle with full body fairings. A well built 50cc engine in a streamline body like the 1960's Kreidler race bikes could do some impressive things. The pieces are out there but nobody has put them all together yet. A Genuine Stella 4 speed and a Rifle fairing shell from Vetter would be a start.

[Frank Lee]

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...diy-11970.html

Probably didn't see it because it's a sticky.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by nickec

Go to http://www.spira4u.com for pictures and video of various EPP body vehicles.

Spira had an NHTSA style test done to a 4 passenger version of their EPP body concept which produced outstanding results for an under 500 pound vehicle.

Watch this video at slowest possible speed:
Spira4u 36 mph frontal offset Crash in USA - YouTube

Click the gear icon in lower right corner of video. Choose speed. Click .25 for quarter speed.

SPIRA4U.COM SOFT | SAFE | SEXY ???

I never thought a shoe manufacturer would also sell cars.

[Sven7]

Originally Posted by sendler

I'm just trying to save you some trouble. Craig Vetter has already experimented with all of this many years ago and found that he had to remove the doors from his design as it was dangerous in the wind. And that was without the roof which has huge leverage to blow you off line because it is so high.

For anyone thinking of building an aerodynamic motorcycle, I would strongly recommend sitting down for a week and reading through Vetter's seven year long project log that covers several bikes, from Helix to Ninjette. Avoid the problems he ran into, and be realistic in your expectations.
Last Vetter Fairing

[Grant-53]

I understood Xist was looking for a 250 mpg hardtop scooter. The Allert Honda 125 is a benchmark machine. The website craigvetter.com is the premier site for streamlining motorcycles and fuel economy. I have had the privilege of corresponding with Craig for several years. I have scoured the web for papers on the aerodynamics of motorcycles and bicycles. We are pushing the envelope here and I believe an aero stable scooter is possible. There are subtle factors that need to be addressed. I wouldn't say anything is impossible if the necessary and lawful conditions are met. I think we have enough talent and skill among us to make it happen.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by Grant-53

lawful

Which the two laws I see being broken right off the bat with this proposed design are a side Center of Pressure that is WAY higher than the Center of Gravity on the roll axis. And the lack of about 2 square feet of venting from one side of the bike to the other at the point of maximum lift (side).