Efficiency: Formula One engines in 2014

[user removed]

Originally Posted by mechman600

120kW for 33 seconds is 1.10kWh.
That wouldn't make a normal vehicle go very far.

That's 1.1 kwh every lap, not every hour. Think of it a 3960 killowatt seconds (1,1kw X 3600 seconds) per lap for however many laps it takes to use an hour of race time.

Fact is they have 161 HP for 33 seconds, EVERY LAP, not every hour. Also think they are getting around 1/3 of that same track without the fuel they required before.

Now tell me again how much energy they are recovering in an hour?

regards
Mech

[ron]

My understanding is that they store the energy and use it for a short blast/boost of power to overtake and pass only. then it takes several laps to get a recharge and use it again

[mechman600]

What I am really curious about is how they will use this added KERS during a race. Now they have just over 6 seconds per lap so they have to be very strategic in how they use it, like defending against a DRS enabled car trying to overtake. A few seconds here and there and it's all gone until the next lap.

33 seconds of KERS per lap? Yikes! I am pretty sure they could use it on every single corner exit, which also brings into question how the driver will turn it on. Right now they have a button that the driver pushes. But in 2014 there will be simply too much available KERS for the driver to use all of it he has to concentrate on always pushing a button, so I bet it will be more of an automatic thing, where the cars computers automatically provide KERS boost at certain corner exits (or all corners in varying amounts) or maybe certain straights.

What a nightmare it will be if a car's telemetry and location transponders malfunction with this system!

[niky]

Currently, F1 cars recover enough energy under braking for more than the several seconds of boost currently allowed over a single lap. It's regenerative braking, but not as we know. Nasty, brutish, and short. They recover so much more power than they're allowed to use, they simply bleed the excess off.

This is part of why Red Bull has been so dominant. They've run their margins very, very slim... since the KERS limit was worth something like six seconds of boost per lap, they sized their system to be very light and small, freeing up packaging space for other things.

I don't know whether the current KERS system can recover 33 seconds worth of boost per lap, but I'm pretty sure they can recover at least half that amount, already. If it takes two laps (worst case scenario, in my opinion) to build 33 seconds of boost and fill the batteries, then that opens up a wide array of defensive and offensive strategies in overtaking situations.

A 30% reduction in fuel capacity will still allow teams to finish, especially with the smaller ICEs and variable engine maps. They will simply have to hypermile over parts of the race.

[mechman600]

Personally, I'd like to see them all pulse and glide down the main straight!

[user removed]

I think this will become very very interesting to see how they develop tactics to maximize the stored energy over a complete race. I still wonder how much total energy they will recover in the system over the duraion of a complete race.

They will probably try to keep the system above 80% charge so they will have some "cushion" for agressive passing moves, but then If they are behind the lead car then the temptation to use more reserve will be hard to resist.

regards
Mech

[mechman600]

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic

That's 1.1 kwh every lap, not every hour. Think of it a 3960 killowatt seconds (1,1kw X 3600 seconds) per lap for however many laps it takes to use an hour of race time.

Fact is they have 161 HP for 33 seconds, EVERY LAP, not every hour. Also think they are getting around 1/3 of that same track without the fuel they required before.

Now tell me again how much energy they are recovering in an hour?

regards
Mech

Right. I get your comment now.
1.1 kWh X 70 laps = 77 kWh. That's Tesla Model S territory.

[NeilBlanchard]

They won't have more storage that they need for one lap of the track. Store it - use it - store it - use it, and so on.

F! rules already require that all the cars start the race with all the fuel they need onboard at the beginning of the race. If they start with less fuel, then they start with significantly less weight, which means they can accelerate much more quickly at the beginning of the race.

Another important point - the brakes can be smaller and they can have less cooling air, and they can have less wear and tear; since the KERS system will take over some of the braking duties. The balance of aero drag and keeping brakes at the right temperature is absolutely key. Everything matters - especially in F1.

[mechman600]

I wonder how the TERS (Thermal Energy Recovery System) will turn waste exhaust heat into electricity for the battery pack. Thermocouple arrays in the exhaust pipe? This is something the auto industry could really benefit from if TERS does make an appreciable difference.

[user removed]

I wonder if they start the race with the KERS fully charged.

regards
Mech