Efficient School Buses - Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum

Big Dave · 05-30-2010, 12:02 AM

We hope that Pepsi never does a follow-up on the kid's "Green Shield" bass-ackwards attempt at streamlining a low speed vehicle. If they do, the kid will be made to look like a world-class dope. He was trying, but he's just a kid.

But that doesn't mean school buses don't have potential in other areas.

Generally, I'm not a huge fan of hybrids because of their complexity (read: high cost, reliability problems) but the start-stop-start-stop routine of school bus operations is a logical place for true series hybrids.

A local university got some little city busses that are series hybrids and they use the buses for there remote-parking shuttle operations. They work OK, but some genius bought them with inefficient (14,000 BTU/kwh) microturbines. I guess the idea was to run on some unspecified alternative liquid fuel, but the reality is they run on No. 2 diesel. That said, a diesel generator would be more efficient (9,000 BTU/kwh).

School buses carry a light load, so you could pile a whole bunch of batteries on them and have a 20 HP generator and regenerative braking keep them charged up. School busses carry passengers high and have big empty spaces alongside the frame rails where you could put the batteries.

An engine that small probably would not keep that big cabin warm, so you'd need to add a propane heater.

Alternate fuel of choice: CNG. Lose the diesel or gas turbine and get a gas engine with no throttle. On or off - WOT or stopped. Simpler, cheaper, and no problem with the fuel clouding in winter.

Christ · 05-30-2010, 12:23 AM

I like. That is all.

Frank Lee · 05-30-2010, 12:26 AM

Whatever UPS and FedEx come up with for their delivery trucks will also work on busses. Same with city bus hybrids. Half the work is done, at least for a good starting point.

robbiewt · 05-30-2010, 01:52 AM

The biggest problem with school busses are the routes. In the suburbs out here a bus will stop every 200 or 300 feet and 3 or 4 kids will get off. When I was in high school(not that long ago) my bus had one stop in my neighborhood and let off about 20 kids, then go to the next neighborhood. Now it seems unacceptable for kids to walk more than 50 yards.

Christ · 05-30-2010, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robbiewt

The biggest problem with school busses are the routes. In the suburbs out here a bus will stop every 200 or 300 feet and 3 or 4 kids will get off. When I was in high school(not that long ago) my bus had one stop in my neighborhood and let off about 20 kids, then go to the next neighborhood. Now it seems unacceptable for kids to walk more than 50 yards.

It's a liability issue. The kids are still technically being cared for by the school district until they are at their home. The closer to home they are, the less liability there is for the school district.

It's retarded, granted, but that's the way it is.

Frankly, the first time my Kid wants to ride a bike or something to school (9-ish miles), I'm going to shake his hand and tell him to get up earlier.

Piwoslaw · 05-30-2010, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Whatever UPS and FedEx come up with for their delivery trucks will also work on busses. Same with city bus hybrids. Half the work is done, at least for a good starting point.

A school bus' work cycle is slightly different: It drives around for 1-2 hours in the morning and another 1-2h in the afternoon and can spend the rest of it's time charging. How many miles does a school bus do in the morning or afternoon? Well, 2 hours with an average speed of 25mph = ~50 miles. A few batteries with regenerative braking, plus a small emergency generator, should do the trick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Dave

An engine that small probably would not keep that big cabin warm, so you'd need to add a propane heater.

I think 50 hyperactive kids in a small space can produce quite a bit of heat

fud2468 · 05-31-2010, 11:39 PM

Maybe garbage trucks could benefit too.
In cities, with stops 50-100 feet apart, engines rev up for a few seconds, then brakes are jammed on for the next stop. Regenerative braking seems like a no-brainer.
Ray Mac

Piwoslaw · 06-01-2010, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fud2468

Maybe garbage trucks could benefit too.
In cities, with stops 50-100 feet apart, engines rev up for a few seconds, then brakes are jammed on for the next stop. Regenerative braking seems like a no-brainer.

Last month I read in an "insiders' garbage magazine" that somewhere in Western Europe (Holland? Belgium?) a hybrid garbage truck is being tested. Using batteries, and switching from hydraulic to electric power for all the loading apparatus (apparatuses? apparatii??), not only saves fuel, but also greatly reduces noise and emissions.

Thymeclock · 06-02-2010, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christ

It's a liability issue. The kids are still technically being cared for by the school district until they are at their home. The closer to home they are, the less liability there is for the school district.

It's retarded, granted, but that's the way it is.

Frankly, the first time my Kid wants to ride a bike or something to school (9-ish miles), I'm going to shake his hand and tell him to get up earlier.

Actually, anything to do with school buses is ultimately a political issue.

For those of you who might be too young to realize it, back in the late '60s the powers of authority decided that racial integration needed to be achieved through mandatory school busing. It was considered of such magnitude and high priority that school buses were given legal exemption from pollution controls.

Now it strikes me as odd that today, decades later, politically (environmentally?) correct parents put their kids on school buses that obviously reek of exhaust fumes, and no one notices - or cares. If you've ever had to ride in one (or even drive following one) you'd wonder how the kids stand it. But they only are the 'smallest pawns in the game of life', and they can't complain, can they?

The sacrosanct yellow school bus is the American version of a 'sacred cow' on wheels. And a big source of (legally permissible) air pollution.

Christ · 06-02-2010, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thymeclock

Actually, anything to do with school buses is ultimately a political issue.

For those of you who might be too young to realize it, back in the late '60s the powers of authority decided that racial integration needed to be achieved through mandatory school busing. It was considered of such magnitude and high priority that school buses were given legal exemption from pollution controls.

Now it strikes me as odd that today, decades later, politically (environmentally?) correct parents put their kids on school buses that obviously reek of exhaust fumes, and no one notices - or cares. If you've ever had to ride in one (or even drive following one) you'd wonder how the kids stand it. But they only are the 'smallest pawns in the game of life', and they can't complain, can they?

The sacrosanct yellow school bus is the American version of a 'sacred cow' on wheels. And a big source of (legally permissible) air pollution.

That can't be entirely true... at least not anymore. Every district I've been to school in that I can actually remember, the bus ride was optional. Here in Troy, I lived approx 10 miles from the school. If I felt perky enough, I'd get up early and bike to school. Several times, I actually got up and walked to school. 10 miles of walking takes about 2.5 hours at a decent pace. At 5 AM, you're walking at a decent pace in PA's north east country. Or you're cold. Either way.