Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Fossil Fuel Free
Register Now
 Register Now
 


Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-22-2009, 08:42 PM   #11 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,744

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,579
Thanked 3,520 Times in 2,203 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by roflwaffle View Post
You just mentioned how it provides an advantage. Unless the turbo is designed to operate a low loads/speeds, and in that context limits power output, adding this, just like adding a conventional supercharger, can greatly improve low speed torque.
Erm... so put the right size turbo(s) on it, that pretty much works right? Or supercharge it. Or pick what you want- low end grunt or high end scream. Me, I don't need em both.

__________________


  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 09-22-2009, 10:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: maine
Posts: 758

oldscoob - '87 subaru wagon gl/dr
90 day: 47.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 21
Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts
low speed torque.

start this whole fiasco with a 3 main boxer all natural aspirated and see how much electric supercharger babble gets buried. they can't even vtec an inline four into mimicking a two valve 50 year old version. How far backwards does engineering go ? anybody?

diesels and long slow burn use a turbo better than any machine on earth using faster fuels than diesel. max rpm 2100.

an engine that torques anyway, finds turbo power <3k. An old subaru engine maxxed at 2800.

This nonsense. I gotta headache.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2009, 11:42 PM   #13 (permalink)
Moderate your Moderation.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Troy, Pa.
Posts: 8,919

Pasta - '96 Volkswagen Passat TDi
90 day: 45.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,369
Thanked 430 Times in 353 Posts
Electric Supercharger, anyone?



Didn't this idea get shown the bricks years ago?

I seem to remember that it just takes too much electrical power to create enough airflow at high engine speeds to actually create a supercharger's effect of increasing intake volume by any reasonable amount.

In fact, many of the "electric superchargers" that were tested restricted airflow, keeping the manifold under vacuum even under full "boost" conditions.
__________________
"¿ʞɐǝɹɟ ɐ ǝɹ,noʎ uǝɥʍ 'ʇı ʇ,usı 'ʎlǝuol s,ʇı"

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2009, 12:42 AM   #14 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Ryland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Western Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903

honda cb125 - '74 Honda CB 125 S1
90 day: 79.71 mpg (US)

green wedge - '81 Commuter Vehicles Inc. Commuti-Car

Blue VX - '93 Honda Civic VX
Thanks: 867
Thanked 433 Times in 353 Posts
350 amps under acceleration? the motor on my electric car has a 350 amp slow blow fuse, sure it peeks higher for a few seconds if I totally floor it... but under normal loads 200 amps or less and this is driving the wheels.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2009, 12:42 AM   #15 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 389

2003 Ninja EX250 - '03 Kawasaki Ninja EX250
90 day: 78.57 mpg (US)

Saturn - '99 Saturn SL1 Base
90 day: 47.27 mpg (US)
Thanks: 25
Thanked 58 Times in 37 Posts


__________________
Doing my part to reduce dependence on OIL
Doing my part to reduce congestion
And enjoying it!

If you have to use your brakes, you are driving too fast!

My 101.5 MPG 2003 Kawasaki Ninja 250




Crude Oil Price Today
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2009, 12:49 AM   #16 (permalink)
Moderate your Moderation.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Troy, Pa.
Posts: 8,919

Pasta - '96 Volkswagen Passat TDi
90 day: 45.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,369
Thanked 430 Times in 353 Posts
I actually watched a ricer in a Honda Civic lose to a Neon, then duct tape a 2-stroke leaf blower to his intake through a hole in the firewall, and win against the same Neon.

All I had to say was "Wow."

What people don't account for when considering boost is the fact that ANYTHING over the normal vacuum for your RPM and throttle angle is boost - even though it's not actually pressurizing the intake, it's still boosting the VE of the engine by reducing pumping losses.

The problem with the Electric Supercharger that I posted above is that it simply can't flow enough air to keep an engine happy. Often, you'll find similar things that are actually trolling fans for boats. They can't move 300 CFM of air on good days, and people honestly think they're making a difference in top-end HP. Well, they are, actually... they're REDUCING it.
__________________
"¿ʞɐǝɹɟ ɐ ǝɹ,noʎ uǝɥʍ 'ʇı ʇ,usı 'ʎlǝuol s,ʇı"

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2009, 02:08 AM   #17 (permalink)
Pokémoderator
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,864

1999 Saturn SW2 - '99 Saturn SW2 Wagon
Team Saturn
90 day: 40.49 mpg (US)
Thanks: 439
Thanked 528 Times in 355 Posts
Christ -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christ View Post
...

I seem to remember that it just takes too much electrical power to create enough airflow at high engine speeds to actually create a supercharger's effect of increasing intake volume by any reasonable amount.

In fact, many of the "electric superchargers" that were tested restricted airflow, keeping the manifold under vacuum even under full "boost" conditions.
That's what I was thinking. I am giving it the benefit of the doubt for now and just specumalatin'. Maybe I'm giving Treehugger too much credit.

Who is "Controller Power Technologies"? :

Controlled Power Technologies... Background
Quote:
Controlled Power Technologies Limited was founded in early 2007 by senior automotive executives to focus on carbon reduction issues.

Asset and technology acquisitions from Visteon Corporation, together with the signing of associated licensing and collaboration agreements with Switched Reluctance Drives Limited, give the new company immediate access to a portfolio of production-ready and near-term solutions to the problem of automotive CO2 reduction.
...
“Following adoption of the EU legislation to limit average CO2 automotive emissions from 2012, and an increasing focus on emission reduction in the US, the need for carbon abatement is rapidly growing in importance,” said the company’s chief executive Nick Pascoe. “Coupled with increasing fuel prices, company car tax determined by CO2 emissions and increasing costs of diesel powertrains, there is now stronger demand than ever before for cost-effective fuel-efficient technologies.”
Ok, it looks like they're carving a niche out of the EU emissions legislation.

Now, who is Visteon? :

Visteon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
... one of the world's largest suppliers of automotive parts. The company formed in 1997 and spun off from the Ford Motor Company in 2000. In 2005, Visteon moved to new headquarters in Van Buren Township, Michigan. Visteon is to the Ford Motor Company as Delphi is to General Motors and Denso is to Toyota.
Sooooo, at least Visteon is the real deal. But maybe they sold their "rotten fruit" to CPT.

"Switched Reluctance Drives Limited" is for real too :

Switched Reluctance Drives

CarloSW2
__________________

What's your EPA MPG? Go Here and find out!
American Solar Energy Society
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2009, 02:53 AM   #18 (permalink)
EV OR DIESEL
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 1,743

FarFarfrumpumpen - '03 Volkswagen Jetta Wagon GLS Premium

Quorra - '12 Tesla Model S P85
Thanks: 57
Thanked 100 Times in 80 Posts
Send a message via AIM to dremd
I saw theses guys at SEMA one year.
It does in fact move a poop load of air (my estimate was 3x a commercial leaf blower); but thats all I can vouch for.
__________________
2012 Tesla Model S P85
2013 Nissan LEAF SV totaled by now deceased intoxacated driver.
2012 Nissan LEAF SV
6 speed ALH TDI Swapped in to a 2003 Jetta Wagon
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2009, 02:55 AM   #19 (permalink)
EtOH
 
Allch Chcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North Coast, California
Posts: 429

Cordelia - '15 Mazda Mazda3 i Sport
90 day: 37.83 mpg (US)
Thanks: 72
Thanked 33 Times in 24 Posts
Cool

350 Amps huh? So about 5kw under acceleration. 1.45 atmospheres on a 1.2l is nice.
350 amp burst for what? a half minute? It could work if the electronics were all taken care of and you used a big enough battery pack.

The problem with the "electric superchargers" was that they were simply a leaf blower mounted to the intake. If they were driven more like a true turbo/supercharger system tied to the throttle and RPM and the electrical system was upgraded for the large power demand it could work. The main problem is that 5kw is being used to feed more air into the engine. It's on a 12volt system for which that amperage is too high for more than a few brief bursts like the starter. The solution is to use a higher voltage motor or bigger batteries. A 48volt motor with 4- 12volt batteries with 25amp/hour capacity would provide about 10 minutes of boost per charge. You really only need a few minutes at a time but the pulse amperage is really dependent on the battery.

If it means using a 5kw motor to boost the engine's displacement, you know people are going to take the boost over using a 5kw motor to the wheels.
__________________
-Allch Chcar

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2009, 03:32 AM   #20 (permalink)
Moderate your Moderation.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Troy, Pa.
Posts: 8,919

Pasta - '96 Volkswagen Passat TDi
90 day: 45.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,369
Thanked 430 Times in 353 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allch Chcar View Post
350 Amps huh? So about 5kw under acceleration. 1.45 atmospheres on a 1.2l is nice.
350 amp burst for what? a half minute? It could work if the electronics were all taken care of and you used a big enough battery pack.

The problem with the "electric superchargers" was that they were simply a leaf blower mounted to the intake. If they were driven more like a true turbo/supercharger system tied to the throttle and RPM and the electrical system was upgraded for the large power demand it could work. The main problem is that 5kw is being used to feed more air into the engine. It's on a 12volt system for which that amperage is too high for more than a few brief bursts like the starter. The solution is to use a higher voltage motor or bigger batteries. A 48volt motor with 4- 12volt batteries with 25amp/hour capacity would provide about 10 minutes of boost per charge. You really only need a few minutes at a time but the pulse amperage is really dependent on the battery.

If it means using a 5kw motor to boost the engine's displacement, you know people are going to take the boost over using a 5kw motor to the wheels.

Foolishly, of course, because no one will actually do the math. They'll hear the word "boost" and jump on it. Of course, one could downplay the idea by calling the IMA system "boost" as well, since that's one of it's potential uses - to give a "boost" in acceleration for short "bursts". Kind of like E-Nitrous.

__________________
"¿ʞɐǝɹɟ ɐ ǝɹ,noʎ uǝɥʍ 'ʇı ʇ,usı 'ʎlǝuol s,ʇı"

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electric car conversion: Project ForkenSwift MetroMPG Fossil Fuel Free 1041 07-28-2014 10:19 AM
“Revenge of the Electric Car” Coming in 2009 SVOboy EcoModder Blog Discussion 18 03-28-2012 08:24 PM
Milwaukee Electric Car Club (Running EVent!) bennelson Events & Meet-ups 18 10-17-2011 12:04 PM
100 mile range Ranger EV? Frank Lee Fossil Fuel Free 10 08-05-2010 01:09 PM
Article: Electric Subaru Due in 2009, One Year Early MetroMPG Fossil Fuel Free 8 08-29-2009 01:19 AM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com