Fuel Consumption Economics...???

[cfg83]

dbc1218 -

Good data. You can put the information inside the "code" option (the "#" icon) and it will use a monospace font :

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But you have to get the spacing right in an editor outside of the forum, and then copy/paste it in.

CarloSW2

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by dbc1218

So here is my question, should I drive the car and get half the mileage of the scooter but at half the price, or should I ride the scooter and get double the mileage at double the cost?

I bought the scooter to save on gas but with these numbers it doesn't seem justified.

That's because you're not putting enough miles on the scooter.
Adding almost 20% to the price in accessories didn't help either.

Your insurance is costing more than the car itself, that's bl**dy ridiculous !
You should really try to reduce that.

Split your costs in fixed, and variable costs / mile.
Then you know what each is costing you regardless of use.
Next, add the cost / mile.

The Civic has high fixed cost and high running cost - they're only masked by its higher use.
The scoot is hampered by its far lower use, but has the potential to be run at a far lower overall cost as both its fixed costs and running costs are lower.


Can the Ruckus cover all your transportation needs, or would you still need the car anyway ?

[bombloader]

Originally Posted by dbc1218

So here is my question, should I drive the car and get half the mileage of the scooter but at half the price, or should I ride the scooter and get double the mileage at double the cost?

I bought the scooter to save on gas but with these numbers it doesn't seem justified.

You have to separate your fixed, variable, and sunk costs. Insurance for example is a fixed cost, it's the same no matter how many miles the vehicle drives. Gas is obviously variable, and maintenance could be considered fixed or variable. Vehicle purchase price is a sunk cost, it can't be recovered and so should not be included. I would suggest using variable cost only and see what the results are. Eyeballing the numbers, I'd suggest the scooter will win. Then include fixed costs. If the scooter ends up losing again, then run numbers to see how many more miles you have to ride the scooter to break even. Possibly use a spreadsheet program and goal seek function. Then determine if that mileage is feasible for you. If it isn't then, consider selling the scooter. Personally I'd keep it even when things are close just for the fun factor

[jamesqf]

You also need to factor in some other things, as for instance if there's MC/scooter parking close to your destinations, you might save a lot of time, and maybe money on parking.

And then there's the fun factor: how much is the extra fun of riding the scooter worth?

[redyaris]

Originally Posted by dbc1218

This is good discussion, one that I have thought about more recently. I want to throw out my numbers and see what you guys have to say. I currently have two primary vehicles that I have used since I purchased them in May and June of 2008. I have a 1995 Honda Civic LX 5spd and a 2008 Honda Ruckus 50cc scooter. I have kept track of every gallon I have put in both vehicles over this time and have good records of all my expenses, ie gas, maintenance, registration, insurance and accessories. These are my ACTUAL numbers, not any nation wide averages, like the numbers being thrown around.

Civic Ruckus

Milage
Starting Milage 157821 0
Current Milage 179098 6106.3

Expenses
Purchase $1,500.00 $2,591.00
Insurance $1,638.22 $299.96
Maintenance $1,389.71 $120.84
Registration $219.00 $165.00
Accessory $113.51 $460.35

Gas Expense
2008 $717.33 $95.49
2009 $341.04 $46.88
2010 $429.23 $49.70

Total Gallons 552.971 66.167
Total Milage 21277 6106.30
Total Expense $6,348.04 $3,829.22

Cost Per Mile $0.30 $0.63
Average MPG 38.5 92.3

Sorry for the format I couldn't get it to space things out, I also attached a picture of the data.

As far as average speed goes, I know I average 30mph on the scooter because a few of the longer trips I have taken on it. I also drove a car today, not my civic, on a 200+ mile round trip and the trip computer said average speed was 45mph.

So here is my question, should I drive the car and get half the mileage of the scooter but at half the price, or should I ride the scooter and get double the mileage at double the cost?

I bought the scooter to save on gas but with these numbers it doesn't seem justified.

I see that others have already addressed the issue of cost/accounting analasys. The other issue you may want to think about is the marginal utility of each additional vehical. I for one have more vehicals than a rational person would have if personal transport was the main consideration [a fleet of 7 motorcycles...]. I suspect that two vehicals is about optimum because you always have a backup if one of them fails. The other peace of the puzzel is, what part of your disposable income do these vehicals represent? How important is being able to transport yourself and property when ever you want. Is renting a vehicle adequit to your needs? The "right answer..." is dependent on your personal means and needs. The important thing to do is look at the issue from as many angles as you can. Far to often economics is reduced to finance, which is only a part of economics...

[dbc1218]

I looked into some of the suggestions and have come to a conclusion. No matter how you slice it if I remove the purchase price from the calculation of cost per mile, the Ruckus wins every time. the best case being if I only consider gas and maintenance costs, which makes the civic $0.14/mi and the Ruckus %0.05/mile.

This is purely financial. the real economics have to take more, less quantifiable, data into consideration. I don't plan on selling either of these vehicles any time soon. The scooter's fun factor cannot be denied, and the civic fills all my other transportation needs.

[Frank Lee]

What people pay for wheels never ceases to amaze me.

[redyaris]

Originally Posted by dbc1218

I looked into some of the suggestions and have come to a conclusion. No matter how you slice it if I remove the purchase price from the calculation of cost per mile, the Ruckus wins every time. the best case being if I only consider gas and maintenance costs, which makes the civic $0.14/mi and the Ruckus %0.05/mile.

This is purely financial. the real economics have to take more, less quantifiable, data into consideration. I don't plan on selling either of these vehicles any time soon. The scooter's fun factor cannot be denied, and the civic fills all my other transportation needs.

One other way to think about the perchas price is in terms of depreciation. Because its value is reduced over maney years; lets say 10 years then you only consume its value at a rate of 10% per year. If you look into the tax system for business, they have formulas and tables showing rates of depreciation for all kinds of stuff. By the way, thanks for the question, it generated some enlightening discusion.

[aerohead]

I like to figure in the number of American children,effectively eaten each year my American motorists in order to ensure a steady flow of foreign petroleum into their fuel tanks from areas hostile to the U.S..
I think the current flesh-market dollar figure is on the order of half a trillion a year.

[slowmover]

I think a mixed fleet is a future. Problem is that it needs to be spread between a number of people (and the problems that entails, family or not). Big truck fleets that run the machinery 24/7 (called slip-seat or hot-seat) generate great numbers in utilization. Sitting idle makes little sense, beyond convenience. But as we move from, say, turbodiesels to electrics for our metro commutes (and strive to live, work, play in a smaller area) there is still a long period of transition; a decade or more. I've been thinking of this as money should go to a garage as bikes, scooters, cars, trucks can each and every one have a different drivetrain and/or fuel. And cannibalization will need to increase. Plus, an extended family needs a place to do heavy, dirty, greasy work. With significant available electrical. And security.

Transportation as a percentage of the average American housedhold income is now above 17%, highest it's ever been. A few years of that buys a pretty good garage, or, a better home closer-in (albeit smaller in size). As a garage devoid of multiple vehicles is also a workshop this idea has me looking at real estate differently: one car, several scooters, electric-assist bikes, other bikes, etc into one space. But many authorized users. Probably a designated drivers. Or the space is a home business.

One can point to the utility of any vehicle if well chosen, well-driven/maintained, but utilization kicks them all in the tail.

I'd stick with one vehicle. For now. Overhead is overhead, but the costs of several vehicles to one owner ties up options about time, money & expertise that may be better used elsewhere. Otherwise, the vehicles need to show a clear profit in use (beyond tax subsidization) to offset their own cost and that of another. Multiple vehicles sort of means, "Am I now in the livery business?". No matter the cost of fuel, the other costs outweigh it. Especially if only for non-income miles. Fixed costs will rise, of every type.

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