Getting Greedy?

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

Massive forest fires are nothing new. Isn't it possible that many of the fires today are the result of massive changes in forest management over the last 30 years? So back at the turn of the previous century we had the worst fires ever before we managed forests. Then we went through a golded period of few fires and strict management. Now we are back to hands off and massive fires. It's like an A-B-A test but instead blame it on C.

The main reason is drought and overseeding (after clear cutting). Trees get less water than they need. Less water means less sap. Less sap means the tree is more susceptible to disease such as pine beetles. In a matter of a few years entire forests all over the state have died. When you have an entire state suddenly have all it's trees die it doesn't matter what forest management did it didn't do.

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

The main reason is drought and overseeding (after clear cutting). Trees get less water than they need. Less water means less sap. Less sap means the tree is more susceptible to disease such as pine beetles. In a matter of a few years entire forests all over the state have died. When you have an entire state suddenly have all it's trees die it doesn't matter what forest management did it didn't do.

Around here, there used to be a massive network of forest service roads. Those roads were built by logging operations that thinned the forest out. Clear cutting wasn't widespread unless it was to salvage dead or dying trees. Then the forest service policy was to use those roads and manpower to immediately put out the first spark of wildfires. So we thinned and cleaned forests, and aggressively stopped fires. Now every mill has been closed, they don't cut any trees on the national forests. They closed and destroyed most of the roads. They won't fight most fires until they are too big to fight and then waste billions throwing manpower at it when nothing's going to stop it but winter. I am a big hunter and hiker and have been since 1975 in this area. I remember what it used to be like. I remember each fire in a 200 mile radius. I see before and after of fires, and of logging, fires in logged areas and fires in natural aeras. Aeras that are still managed and aeras that have gone wild. It may not be the only cause, but it is certainly a huge cause, and if you have seen the emissions a forest fire puts out and were concerned about CO2 caused global warming, there would be a bigger effort to stop fires, use the wood to build with, which sequesters the carbon for 100s of years. Use it or just watch it burn.

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by redneck

.

Forest fires...


https://youtu.be/raR_IkUD7is


>

.

That's a clear, well made video. Why on earth would you delete statistics unless you are pushing an untrue narrative.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

Around here, there used to be a massive network of forest service roads. Those roads were built by logging operations that thinned the forest out. Clear cutting wasn't widespread unless it was to salvage dead or dying trees. Then the forest service policy was to use those roads and manpower to immediately put out the first spark of wildfires. So we thinned and cleaned forests, and aggressively stopped fires. Now every mill has been closed, they don't cut any trees on the national forests. They closed and destroyed most of the roads. They won't fight most fires until they are too big to fight and then waste billions throwing manpower at it when nothing's going to stop it but winter. I am a big hunter and hiker and have been since 1975 in this area. I remember what it used to be like. I remember each fire in a 200 mile radius. I see before and after of fires, and of logging, fires in logged areas and fires in natural aeras. Aeras that are still managed and aeras that have gone wild. It may not be the only cause, but it is certainly a huge cause, and if you have seen the emissions a forest fire puts out and were concerned about CO2 caused global warming, there would be a bigger effort to stop fires, use the wood to build with, which sequesters the carbon for 100s of years. Use it or just watch it burn.

Like I said, the entire state is dead. If you want to chop down all the dead trees you'd need to clear cut the whole state, right now.

About the only thing that would fix it is just evacuate the whole state and throw a match and let it do its thing. Then come back and start from scratch.

The wood isn't allowed to be used for export because it's diseased, mostly pine beetles, and could cause the same condition elsewhere. If you go sit in the forest you can hear all the pine beetles chewing on the wood inside the trees. And although there's a big need for building in Colorado, you wouldn't be able to use all that wood due to the low population.

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

Like I said, the entire state is dead. If you want to chop down all the dead trees you'd need to clear cut the whole state, right now.

About the only thing that would fix it is just evacuate the whole state and throw a match and let it do its thing. Then come back and start from scratch.

The wood isn't allowed to be used for export because it's diseased, mostly pine beetles, and could cause the same condition elsewhere. If you go sit in the forest you can hear all the pine beetles chewing on the wood inside the trees. And although there's a big need for building in Colorado, you wouldn't be able to use all that wood due to the low population.

Uh, not even hardly. The forests have some beetle damage and those trees could certainly be made into lumber to be used domestically instead of all the imported wood we get from Canada. We can't cut it down becuase very permit is challenged and blocked. Then as they could never cut anything down the mills had nothing to mill so they all closed. Now they have been closed so light they have been dismantled. So it would take a decade or more to bring it all back online. Sadly we will be back to the true record fire seasons of before 1920 and modern management by then.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

Uh, not even hardly. The forests have some beetle damage and those trees could certainly be made into lumber to be used domestically instead of all the imported wood we get from Canada. We can't cut it down becuase very permit is challenged and blocked. Then as they could never cut anything down the mills had nothing to mill so they all closed. Now they have been closed so light they have been dismantled. So it would take a decade or more to bring it all back online. Sadly we will be back to the true record fire seasons of before 1920 and modern management by then.

I was talking about the entire state of Colorado. Anywhere you drive in the state the trees are all dead where they haven't burnt down yet.

[freebeard]

I compare the current situation to the biggest burn during my youth:

Tillamook Burn
The Tillamook Burn was a series of forest fires in the Northern Oregon Coast Range of Oregon in the United States that destroyed a total area of 350,000 acres of old growth timber in what is now known as the Tillamook State Forest. There were four wildfires in this series, which spanned the years of 1933–1951. By association, the name Tillamook Burn also refers to the location of these fires. This event is an important part of the local history of Oregon.

Fabricated narratives are not new. Did Mrs. Leary's cow, the proximate cause of the Chicago fire, start the fires in Minnesota the day before?

the chicago tribune reported the same
thing on october 7
and the following day the city of
chicago also burned to the ground
but that actually wasn't the worst fire
of october 8 1871.
fires burned all around the great lakes
and wisconsin
actually got the worst of the damage
much of the region around green bay
wisconsin was destroyed
and the city of peshtigo was hit the
hardest
people were leaving church that sunday
and without any warning a
massive firestorm came out of the sky
and
killed more than one thousand residents
of pestiga

Note: it came out of the sky. This was a space weather event.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by freebeard

I compare the current situation to the biggest burn during my youth:


Fabricated narratives are not new. Did Mrs. Leary's cow, the proximate cause of the Chicago fire, start the fires in Minnesota the day before?



Note: it came out of the sky. This was a space weather event.

The difference is that now we're talking about closer to 24,500,000 acres, not just 350,000.

Although all news should be viewed with a certain degree of scrutiny, one mistake in one paper in one place at one time doesn't disprove all information in all places at any time.

[freebeard]

...one mistake in one paper in one place at one time doesn't disprove all information in all places at any time.

If all available sources confirm the same narrative, the story becomes 'truthy'.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I believe the scientists that say that global warming is a problem. If global warming is just a scam and therefore I can't believe the scientists, then who can I believe??

Not every scientist out there endorses anthropogenic global warming, even though many influent politicians tend to be more favorable to the ones who do so, because fear is an instrument of social control, and many people would be too scared to argue about better solutions when a politician tries to push some agenda.

Smaller vehicles could be made to be much more efficient but would have to become Aero Civics or Apteras.

With the ownership of motor vehicles still holding some sort of status, which may not be seen to the same extent in the United States as in Mexico or here in Brazil, some folks would rather pay a premium for something worse under the efficiency perspective while it looks more prestigious on another aspect. No wonder the earliest generation of the Mercedes-Benz A-Class failed here, despite the 3-point star badge...

(Safety?)

Had it been for absolute safety, we would never see a motorcycle anymore.

ICE's currently out there can be converted to CNG (good bye trunk space).

I have already seen a lot of vehicles converted to CNG with underbody tanks, leading to a minimal intrusion to the trunk mostly caused by the relocation of the spare tire.