Good bike for larger riders, Ninja 650?

[beatr911]

I'd really like the CBR250R or Ninja but they just seem too cramped for my 6'1" 200lb, abused, creaky, old self. To bridge the gap until I can get the Vetter-bike built with proper ergos to suit me, I'm considering the Ninja 650.

My future commute will be about 65 miles one way at 70-80mph in high desert conditions, meaning HOT in summer and COLD in winter, and 40 degree temperature changes from am to pm.

Sendler, you are showing a one time log of 65.5 mpg but what is the set-up and riding cycle on this entry? You mentioned that the 650 was better for 6'+ riders so that adds to my interest in this bike. I would opt for way taller than stock gearing and some minimal weather protection (aero) improvements to assist in comfort in extreme temperatures.

An alternative would be the coming CFMoto 650TR which is a rip of the Ninja650 except in sport-tourer form. Or the Versys to ease the creaky legs.

So, does anyone have a read on the MPG capability of the Ninja 650 bloodline?

[theycallmeebryan]

I'm 6'1" 190lbs. Put 30,000 miles on my Ninja 250 before it was totaled. The bike was fine ergonomically after i added handlebar risers, but 65 miles one way is pretty far and you'll probably be hurting after doing that every day.

The Ninja 650 is a great option, but how about the Versys? It is pretty much the same bike but is a bit more upright ergonomically and is geared and tuned more for the commuter and tourer.

I'm trying to decide between the Kawi Versys and the Triumph Tiger 800.

[woodsrat]

I'm curious about a larger (around 500-600cc) fuel efficient streamliner as well. I spoke briefly with Mr. Vetter about this at Vintage Days and he said the only reason you need a bike this large was if you wanted to set Bonneville speed records with your 'liner. He strongly believes all you need is 16 HP.

I asked him because I remember reading a story back in the mid-'80's where a fellow was questioning the need to run a 200/250cc motor and believed a 500-600cc thumper could achieve about the same mileage but still have power in reserve for hills, passing, etc. I even bought a stolen & recovered KLR-600 from an insurance company that I was going to experiment with but at the time was so wrapped up in competition hillclimbing that I never found time to do it and sold the bike. I think it would have made a great starting point since the subframe on that particular bike unbolted making it easy to redo it with a lower seat height and feet-forward riding position.

I for one would be very interested in seeing how a fully streamlined Versys or KLR-650 might do mileage and performance-wise. A fully streamlined Gurney Alligator would be interesting as well. I love the idea of making do with less, i. e. building a super fuel efficient machine that uses a 16 HP motor but in the real world you need the power to make passes on two-lane roads going into a headwind.

Any of you engineer types care to do some math work and determine if a 650 class single or twin is efficient enough to achieve 100 MPG or more with proper streamlining in real-world riding conditions?

[theycallmeebryan]

Originally Posted by woodsrat

Any of you engineer types care to do some math work and determine if a 650 class single or twin is efficient enough to achieve 100 MPG or more with proper streamlining in real-world riding conditions?

I would need to see the BSFC chart for the motor to determine whether or not it could happen. CdA, Rolling resistance, and weight do not care what size motor you have, rather whether or not it can produce the power it needs to get moving or stay moving.

I'd say with good aero and efficient driving (accelerating at peak BSFC, limiting your stops, etc), it should be possible.

[beatr911]

The streamliner project will be a 250. ONLY with streamlining, 20-25 hp should be all that is needed for 80mph with some in reserve for reliability, headwinds and hills. But that's the project, another story.

I'm looking for a fuel efficient bike that would be essentially stock and comfortably fit a 6' plus rider that has some decent wind/weather protection. The Kawasaki twin was noted as being fuel efficeint when it came out, especially with taller gearing so that is what I'm trying to verify. Older 650's are cheap too, little more than a Ninja250, making them attractive.

Maybe I should just spend the extra and get the Honda 700 and re-gear taller still. Then again, that takes a chunk money out of the pot for the streamliner project, which is where I really want to go. I can't stay alive without a bike so I need to be riding something, may as well be as efficeint as possible.

Sendler, what is the experience of you and your son with the 650?

Theycallmebryan, the Versys is on the table but I've found little data on how much gearing can help mpg. Much like the more common Ninja 650.

Heck maybe I'll just wring the neck of a 250 cruiser and morph it into a streamliner over time. Dunno.

[alvaro84]

Originally Posted by woodsrat

Any of you engineer types care to do some math work and determine if a 650 class single or twin is efficient enough to achieve 100 MPG or more with proper streamlining in real-world riding conditions?

I'd say it's possible. At least I know about a guy who rode a BMW G650GS single on a fuel economy run, at 103mpg. The bike wasn't streamlined, the rider was He brought a pillow and used that to keep tucking during the whole run. With streamlining it should be easier to surpass 100mpg. Without it I haven't ever succeeded, even with P&G (which Craig hates but I love indeed...)

But I have several 90mpg+ tanks (all "real life"), so it shouldn't be too far.

[sendler]

The two most fuel efficient tall rider bikes are the BMW single and the new Honda NC700X. Either one of those can be hypermiled to a life time of 80 mpgUS. Both are around $7000 in the US. The Ninja650 is one of the most widely available used bikes because so many kids buy them thinking they are cheaper versions of the 600cc supersport bikes and then sell them when they can't keep up with the canyon racers. They are more like a cheaper FJR/ Concours. The torquey engine can be hypermiled to good effect which got me 66 mpgUS. If I were going to ride the bike I would go all the way out as long as would fit on the gearing which would allow me maybe low 70mpg's. Normal, sit up riders, maybe low 60's. The stock bars are really tall. Put a larger windscreen on it and have an upholsterer add 2 inches to get rid of the step in the lowish seat and a Ninja650 would fit 6'6 300 pound guys well with plenty of power to launch them as fast as they want to go.
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[alvaro84]

There must be something wrong with the G650GS data. That 90+ mpg average consists of 2 tanks, a sixty-something and a 125mpg one. I suspect that the latter must be some typo or similar. And 2 data points are far from being data That's my main problem with fuelly - people often abandon their logs after a few tanks, or even before the first one

The 'vanilla' F/G650GS is not a tall bike, though. The Dakar/Sertao incarnation is. I, for example, am definitely too short for them. Once I tried a DL650 (it's in between), and that was about the tallest where I could keep my soles on the ground.

[redyaris]

BMW 650 are one of the best larger bikes for fuel economy. All the variouse sytems are designed from scratch to be good on fuel. Taking a Ninja 650 and reducing the rpm will work up to a point. as you reduce the rpm you eventualy run into fuel metering problems as well as drivability problems in top gear. You end up having to shift gears more often than when the bike is in or close to as built.
The way I think about engine size and fuel economy is in lbs of air the engine pumps per mile. So that if an engine twice as big turns at half the rpm they consume the same amount of fuel and air. The slower running engine will last longe all else being equil.
I have commuted 84km/day [52 miles/day] on my KLR 650 and it was more than enough for the task. If you later deside you want to stream line it, it will be less hassle than a multicylinder engine. If you can get a fuel injected singe cylinder motorcycle that would be even better for later modification. I think the ninja 650 is fuel injected so it may be better able to deal with changing final drive ratios than a carbed engine, and also better able to be streamlines later on.

[DonBarletta]

I'm 6'1", 290 pounds, and I've been riding for 40 years (so far). I've owned a Harley-Davidson, a BMW airheard twin, a Honda 4 cyclinder, and now a Kymco scooter, a BMW R100RT, and a Honda Helix 250cc scooter (identical to the one that Craig Vetter has streamlined and blogged about on his website). I have never modified any of them for streamlining or fuel efficiency, but I have driven all of them for decades in a fuel efficient manner. Of all of the motorcycles and motorscooters I have owned, the Helix has been by far the MOST comfotable to ride for me. If I was looking to ecomod any two-wheeler, I would choose the Helix purely from the comfort standpoint. Compared to all of the other motorcycles and motorscooters in my life, the Helix is like riding on my favorite living room recliner! It is that comfortable for me, and no other 2-wheeler has ever come close in the comfort department. Plus the fact that Vetter has stated that he is going to release a streamlining kit for this scooter, would make the Helix the no-brainer choice for me personally.