He did the math

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by wdb

There are engines in which the valves and the pistons never touch, even if the valves are wide open when the pistons reach top dead center. If a valvetrain failure were to occur on one of these engines, no valves would be bent nor pistons damaged.

Then there are engines where the valves and pistons occupy the same space at (hopefully) different times. In these engines, valvetrain failure can result in bent and dented stuff.

Interference engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You're quite right about interference engines being much more common than just Honda. Lots of manufacturers build them.

True. Pre-WW2 engines used to have side valves, long stroke and low compressiion; or valves that open outward.
There are some other systems using revolving disks with a hole and such, and there are two-stroke, Wankel and turbine engines that don't use valves at all.

For max efficiency we need a short(ish) stroke and rather high compression. That leaves little space in the top end of the combustion chamber. It is also best to have the valves open inside the chamber, so that's why the interference type is more common than all the other types combined, at least for car engines.

It is quite telling to see what happens if you search fro non-interference engine on Wikipedia. There is no page for that. Instead, it redirects to the page for the interference engine.
The Wikipedia interference search engine...!

[UltArc]

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie

He's a Chrysler tech at a Chrysler dealer. That's how the maintenance side made the Chrysler so attractive. I wasn't promoting the 200 as anything great- I was holding it up as an example of how other factors could make even one of those more attractive than something that gets amazing mileage.

Ah, makes sense. I must have missed this fact, I thought he was TALKING to a tech, I didn't know he WAS a tech. Now, it is clear.

Originally Posted by tjts1

Dealers are discounting the to $20k and in the process killing Dart sales.
Analysis: Why Buy A Dart When You Can Buy An Avenger? | The Truth About Cars

I see! When I recently went to test drive a Dart, they didn't even mention the avengers. I also appreciate data being presented with references, so one knows the bs data sources and the reasonable sources- and what they calculate verse what is deduced.

[cujet]

My experience with 06 Jetta TDI ownership was exceedingly costly. I loved the 42MPG real world highway and the 33-34 around town. The engine was pleasant to drive and the DSG trans was neat.

But the overall cost of ownership broke the bank. The very first expense was the O2 sensor, a lowly $780 part, with a few bucks labor (remember it's a wideband sensor, not the same as on gas cars) And VW's TDI emissions warr was 2yr/24K. I was just over that. REQUEST DENIED!

Then my EGR cooler failed. $1500.

Then, then, then, then. Nearly $10,000 later, I gave up and sold the car for well less than 1/2 what I paid.

I'm sure diesels can be economical to own. Just not this one. After all is said and done, that 06 Jetta was the most expensive to own, economy car ever built.

Oh yeah, it left us stranded 3 times. Once horribly so, in the middle of a very busy intersection, hundreds of miles from home. Each time was a mechanical fault with either trans or electrical.

[RedDevil]

Sorry to hear that. Almost every other TDI owner has better luck than yours.

But there is something with diesel engines. Some people seem to attract bad luck with them, getting problem after problem with one car after another. Some people steer free of problems for a very long time. I see this with some of my colleagues. Bad luck, or maybe bad driving habits - bad for diesel engines, that is?

My wife had a '86 Golf (Rabbit) Diesel. She only drove it for 2000 km per year, but managed to blow 3 head gaskets and 1 radiator hose, bend 1 front suspension and have several minor issues in less than 2 years. She drove it like she meant to kill it, and it worked.
When my Civic graciously withdrew to the eternal rust fields I took it over and bought her a Suzuki Alto (petrol). She drove it like mad too, but it held up to that.

Meanwhile I added some 60.000 km in 2½ years to the already stretched odometer of the poor Golf. Everything plastic disintegrated from old age in that time, but I had 0 mechanical problems. Until a jerk cut me and slammed his ABS brakes and I hit its back, unable to stop in time cause of the glazed drum brakes (did I mention she kept the handbrake on on more than 1 trip? Boy do I hope she does not read any site mail containing this ... Darling, if you read this I love you like nothing else, you come first even to my Insight!)

Anyway the Golf was financially totaled, and though fixable I did not feel safe in it anymore so I bought a Nissan Almera that made way to the Insight recently. I was about to buy a diesel, even to take over a Seat Ibiza ST from some other parent on my kids' school, but test drove one and read some consumer reports and shied away just in time.
The built quality on the Insight, though not perfect, is in a totally different league from what I saw in the Seat and it stable mates from Skoda and VW.
One simple example: The indicator stalk on the Seat was hollow, made of two plastic shells with a seam right where you touch it to change direction. I really did not want to touch that anymore after a while. The turn signal really did turn me off. Course that can be fixed, but the rest of the car was the same. Once a car can or needs really be improved with duct tape, it can still be a good car but the luxury feeling is gone.

[cujet]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

Sorry to hear that. Almost every other TDI owner has better luck than yours.

The new ones are better...

But, I'm a regular on the forums. It seems the problems I had mirrored the problems others had/have. My car was not unique.

By the way, by the time the 2nd EGR cooler failed, I was growing quite tired of the poor quality and I started machining replacement parts myself. (I have a home based machine and TIG welding shop) I repaired the EGR cooler, the Anti shudder/throttle valve (an electric throttle that actuates on shutdown) and the transmission bell housing that shattered when the flywheel exploded.

That car was a horror on wheels.

[RedDevil]

I remember that at the time VW did make a point of reducing cost on the parts supplier side, even invoking a take-it-or-leave-it 20% price reduction on all supplied parts at the same time. Some supplier firms refused that and were sidelined. Some folded. Many complied. You do not have to be a genius to figure out what that meant to the quality of their product.

VW makes the same mistake over and over again. One model year of the old Beetle had a novelty - a nylon part was introduced in the gearbox. But it turned out that gearbox oil was devastating to nylon - and repeated stresses did the rest, making the gearbox lock up completely on the motorway, swaying the stricken bugs round.
Sometimes they don't make mistakes and the cars are good though.

[Frank Lee]

VW = average to sub-par product at premium prices. Thanks for adding a few more data points reinforcing that.