Heated Fuel

[davelobi]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

Uh, you're being *kind* to our gobberment EPA dummies!

Ha, you got it Tele man,
Yes, "kind", or maybe just keeping it PG (family website afterall).
Was trying hard to keep politics out of the post but I'm sure a little attitude slipped in. Utter nonsense, just like almost everything and anything our gubberment ever touches. Control, money, power. And as always, the ones making the laws have no clue about what it is that they are making laws about. Just kissing those who kiss them. Kind enough?

[RustyLugNut]

Originally Posted by davelobi

I don't know what you mean by this.

By 2025 the US Government will enforce a CAFE (corporate AVERAGE fuel economy) of 54.5 mpg! That means sub-compacts all the way through full sized SUVs and Pick-Ups, avreage. This means they will have to sell 10 sixty mpg cars so they can sell one Expedition, Suburban, or full sized pick up. The profits for the manufacturers are well documented as coming from the big trucks and sport utilities. Now they will have to sell more no to low profit cars just to keep selling the ones that keep them in business. They already subsidize the prices of the small cars to keep up with current cafe numbers. 54.5 average is not a reasonable number. How many cars on the road today can claim over 50mpg? Now make that the average with the bug rigs pulling the average down.
It is obviously designed to push for electric and hybrid cars.

The engineers are pulling out all stops already to get the economy we currently have available.
It can be done but it will be very expensive to engineer and build cars to these standards. It will likely be a price well above the threshold that the buyers will be willing to pay for a car.

Look at it another way.. Say you could buy a new car that gets 60mpg but costs $40,000 or a car that only gets 45mpg but only costs $20,000. Which one do you buy? At 12,000 miles per year the 60mpg car uses $700 in fuel (at $3.50/gallon), and the 45mpg car uses $933.33 in fuel. A measley $233 savings per year in fuel cost to be forced to pay $20,000 more for the car? That's less than $20 a month. No thank you!

Sorry, way off topic here but what I'm saying is that the manufacturers really are doing all they can to improve fuel economy. If it helps, they are doing it. Don't get me wrong here, I love eco-modding and hyper-miling as much as many on this site. My wife and kids think I'm crazy for driving so slow, adding air dams, coasting, etc.

You are assuming things stay as they are. Technology will not stand still. And buyer preference may shift. Econo car buyers may be willing to spend a bit more if there truly is an advantage to higher priced bottom line cars. Financing may follow. The truth is, no one can predict with certainty. But, the mandate is in the right direction. And Big Rigs are in a different class and do not effect the CAFE (corporate average fuel economy).

[RustyLugNut]

Originally Posted by davelobi

Ha, you got it Tele man,
Yes, "kind", or maybe just keeping it PG (family website afterall).
Was trying hard to keep politics out of the post but I'm sure a little attitude slipped in. Utter nonsense, just like almost everything and anything our gubberment ever touches. Control, money, power. And as always, the ones making the laws have no clue about what it is that they are making laws about. Just kissing those who kiss them. Kind enough?

. . . with your infinite wisdom, what would you suggest and what should be done?

You should probably answer in another thread.

[MetroMPG]

I'd like to remind people to steer clear of getting into politics. It never ends well.

Let's talk about the mods, OK?

[Superfuelgero]

Originally Posted by beatr911

I think why this (these) threads originally died is that no one provided repeatable, measurable data. Data like fuel temps, intake air temps, afr ratios, etc. Also, few people implemented the mod to test it. So in boredom we all let it go.

An easier mod to do (so it was implemented more frequently) is the warm air induction and it was found that certain vehicles respond well, Saturn SL1 I think was a good one.

So, please test this mod someone.

I worry that the documentation would be difficult do to the increase un-metered fuel sent to the evap system. Short length testing via mpguino and scangauge counting injector cycles couldn't be used, you would have to test over the tank, which opens up more variables.

A wai and fuel heat system combined would likely show the best gains to by the prevention of re-condensation.

Both are on my list also. I think the lean burn cars will do the best with it though.
http://geometroforum.com/topic/5072532/1/

[naturalextraction]

I. Had to chime in here as these conversations are as one poster commented are often void of data or evidence to suport claimes often made. I won't be able to offer much as well however as an engineer, one of my studies and research is developing systems to better utilize the internal chemical energy of our available fuels, which have some variences from one station brand to another depending on their blends. No doubt fuel temps can have some effect when introduced to the combustion chamber under appropriate conditions. However its only part ofthe eqation. This vehicle https://vimeo.com/26947432 is my test be where. I use a 12 j & k type thermal sensors to gather readings at all rpm and to quantify the overall environment. So far it runs on one injector feeding all four cylinders at a factory maping that would generally feed one cylinder.
It can run on both diesel and gasoline. Cold start on diesel is still not perfected and still gathering data for these cold months that are added to the Arduino based prcessors controling valves within the system to help maintain delta Q within areas ofthe system. Ill start a thread on it soon. Fuel temps are just one small part of a larger systm of operations just from the induction side to gain higher efficiency.

[RustyLugNut]

Originally Posted by naturalextraction

I. Had to chime in here as these conversations are as one poster commented are often void of data or evidence to suport claimes often made. I won't be able to offer much as well however as an engineer, one of my studies and research is developing systems to better utilize the internal chemical energy of our available fuels, which have some variences from one station brand to another depending on their blends. No doubt fuel temps can have some effect when introduced to the combustion chamber under appropriate conditions. However its only part ofthe eqation. This vehicle https://vimeo.com/26947432 is my test be where. I use a 12 j & k type thermal sensors to gather readings at all rpm and to quantify the overall environment. So far it runs on one injector feeding all four cylinders at a factory maping that would generally feed one cylinder.
It can run on both diesel and gasoline. Cold start on diesel is still not perfected and still gathering data for these cold months that are added to the Arduino based prcessors controling valves within the system to help maintain delta Q within areas ofthe system. Ill start a thread on it soon. Fuel temps are just one small part of a larger systm of operations just from the induction side to gain higher efficiency.

I applaud your efforts and will follow your project.

[pgfpro]

Originally Posted by naturalextraction

I. Had to chime in here as these conversations are as one poster commented are often void of data or evidence to suport claimes often made. I won't be able to offer much as well however as an engineer, one of my studies and research is developing systems to better utilize the internal chemical energy of our available fuels, which have some variences from one station brand to another depending on their blends. No doubt fuel temps can have some effect when introduced to the combustion chamber under appropriate conditions. However its only part ofthe eqation. This vehicle https://vimeo.com/26947432 is my test be where. I use a 12 j & k type thermal sensors to gather readings at all rpm and to quantify the overall environment. So far it runs on one injector feeding all four cylinders at a factory maping that would generally feed one cylinder.
It can run on both diesel and gasoline. Cold start on diesel is still not perfected and still gathering data for these cold months that are added to the Arduino based prcessors controling valves within the system to help maintain delta Q within areas ofthe system. Ill start a thread on it soon. Fuel temps are just one small part of a larger systm of operations just from the induction side to gain higher efficiency.

Very excited for your results!!! Your video makes me want to start a bike project. It looks like it would be so much easier to work on then my POS. lol

[naturalextraction]

Hi Guys, thanks and yes I'll get motivated to start a thread here probably in January. I have some university colloquium jobs to attend to over seas, sadly via internet and not being there, so poopies. After that I thought I'd get the project back on the road with improvement. Also have some other ideas to get under way...we'll see how year progresses.

[MetroMPG]

Related, FYI:

An automotive engineer hints at other research (by a manufacturer, presumably) that found very small gains by completely vaporizing fuel on a heated surface:

I have even tested a device that completely vaporizes the fuel on a heated surface*, eliminating fuel droplets altogether, and the economy improvement was tiny (1 - 2% at most).

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20080619...tomisation.htm