07-09-2019, 01:52 PM
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#21 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
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I wish just one of these major manufacturers would just take one of their existing least expensive, simple cars and add a single fwd electric motor and a medium size Li-ion battery to get the $7500 tax credit, and sell it for a before credits msrp of $19,999. Keep it simple stupid.
Just look at say the Prius C. Drop the ice and transmission/transaxle, add a better electic motor, and quadruple the battery. It already is loaded with electric features and low current draw components, good aero, and is a bit over $21,000 msrp.
Last edited by Hersbird; 07-09-2019 at 02:18 PM..
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07-09-2019, 02:43 PM
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#22 (permalink)
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Thalmaturge
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Isn't that basically what the Leaf is? Nissan's cheapest car (Versa) with a medium battery (24kwh?) and a FWD electric motor. Base price is higher than that because there's a lot more cost in the traction battery.
EDI: I just checked and the smaller battery options don't exist any more and the base price is up to $30k now. Competing upmarket now, I guess.
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07-09-2019, 03:12 PM
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#23 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
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The Leaf is a new EV-only platform, and is significantly larger than the Versa.
The e-Golf is a factory conversion - and in my opinion it is the best EV, functionally.
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07-09-2019, 05:29 PM
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#24 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
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The electric Focus also isn't terrible. To me all of these seem like they have the $7500 tax credit cooked in. They Jack the profit margin $7500 thinking most likely the customer has that subtraction in the back of their minds. Basically the manufacturer is getting the incentive not the customer.
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07-09-2019, 05:44 PM
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#25 (permalink)
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EcoModding Newb
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That was the whole point, that manufacturers need the incentive to build the vehicles. It turns out that even with the $7,500 credit factored in, EVs range from unprofitable, to barely marginally profitable. Tesla is somewhere around break-even on their lowest priced Model 3.
I'd have thought a low priced commuter EV might be fairly easy to make profitable, but it seems not. The battery alone in a 40 kWh vehicle (~150 mile range) is about $5,000. You don't want to merely recoup the marginal cost to build a vehicle though, so the price to the consumer must be a bit higher.
With sufficient volume, I'd think a $19,000 commuter EV would be possible, but I don't know. Perhaps the public acceptance of less than 40 kWh EVs is gone when higher range options exist at much higher prices.
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07-10-2019, 12:24 AM
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#26 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
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At this point I think Arcimoto looks to be the best value but I still don't see how removing a $10,000 ICE powertrain for a $10,000 electric powertrain causes a $15,000 price increase.
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07-10-2019, 12:31 PM
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#27 (permalink)
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EcoModding Newb
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Well, how much is an ICE powertrain? It's certainly less than $10k on something like a FWD sedan.
Of course, the major expense in an EV is the battery, at something like $145 per installed kWh. Nissan's "low" range Leaf would then have a $6,000 battery. Add motors, controllers, chargers, etc... don't know what the final cost would be.
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Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. -H.L Mencken.
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07-10-2019, 02:19 PM
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#28 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
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I don't know, I would think at least $10,000 probably going up to $30,000 for even non-exotics. You have an engine, a transmission, a fuel system, an exhaust system, a starting system, a cooling system, and an emissions system. Certainly even the simplest 3 cylinder and manual transmission still is well over $5000 brand new with factory warranty support.
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07-20-2019, 09:02 AM
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#29 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
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GasDwarf - '13 Volkswagen up! EcoFuel CNG
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The rumormill has it that Honda is going to market the E on its already acclaimed cult status, rather than affordability, let alone range ...
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