Honda Insight/Civic Hybrid, "heavy city" mpg?

[Honda100]

Hi all,

Let me explain my question. I know the Insight is rated at 40 mpg city 43 highway (US mpg), and the Civic hybrid at 40/45 respectively, but I'm wondering if anyone has real world mpg figures for tons of start and stop and never above 15-20 mph regarding the Insight. New Yorkers care to chime in?

i.e. (My current cars mpg with my commute) My city commute is always below 20 mph and includes lots of start stop.

11' Civic EX (1.8 auto) rated at 25/37 mpg but I only get 21.

09' Range Rover Sport Supercharged (rated at 12 mpg city ) ...7 mpg average.

03' Camry XLE (2.4 auto) rated at 24 mpg city, I get 17.

04' Hilux Surf (4.7 auto), rated at 15 mpg city, I get 11.


So, knowing that the hybrid can pick up a lot of inefficiencies of city driving, I'm curious to know what kind of mileage I'm going to get if I swap my daily driver from the Civic to the Insight/Civic Hybrid. Also, is it any smoother? My Civic is really jerky from the 2 to 1 change down so I leave it in 2nd the whole time.


***One note to add***
I am NOT interested in the Civic Hybrid / Insight only because of the mpg per se, rather, I am interested in learning about the car itself. I'm a mechanic with my own small "practice", and want to add hybrids to the lineup of vehicles I can service so I can get more business, simply put. Mpg is a curiosity more than a necessity.

Thanks to all that reply in advance, all info is greatly appreciated.

-Honda100


P.S. I just bought a Prius (3 days ago), and the info screen says 38.3 mpg (rated at 48), but the drivetrain is very different obviously and also, I'm not sure I like the Prius at all. I'm sorry but, I think it's really ugly and people have made fun of me already for being a hippie. I just wanted a smoother city commuter that I could learn to fix hybrids on.

[Cobb]

I can tell you Ive seen as low as 26 mpg. If you use the hvac system it may interrupt auto stop so if you are stopped a lot this will easily lower your mpg by 10%.

If I had to pick a car for you it would be a prius as they are perfect for stop n go city driving. Hondas like to rev and run. I curse mines at times for being slow, but it is easy to handle for extended driving over 70 mph and breaks 50 mpg. 0-60 is just 12 seconds.

[Honda100]

Thanks for that, seems like the Insight is going to be "similar" to the Prius, at least with the mpg. The A/C does run without the engine going, but honestly the gas engine kicks on very often to keep it going, so I assume that the Insight wouldn't be so different.

I just completed my first fillup in my Prius (Gen 2, 2008) and managed 23.6 mpg. I was really disappointed honestly, just 2 mpg better than my 1.8 Civic and I haven't gotten used to the braking feel yet.

Thanks again for the input.

[Cobb]

The hybrid system to a vehicle either improves performance or mpg. Its usually a percentage of the base mpg a similar vehicle would get. Auto stop for the honda has been studies to help mpg by 10%. Ive disabled and made sure conditions were peak for it to work. I have to agree about the % gain.

Now if you are delivering newspapers for example having a prius maybe less wear n tear as the tranny has no clutch. Its all gears. The Honda uses a clutch pack and a steel belt for the cvt. So every stop an go you got clutch engagement and the band moving up and down 2 pulleys. Usually the band breaks.

I know you are just focused on mpg, but the exhaust is also cleaner.

[Honda100]

^^Re: disabling the auto start. How difficult is it to do for the average mechanic? I'm an 11 year mechanic with my own little shop and the actual purpose for me getting the hybrid was to learn how to fix them. I get a lot of my customers asking about fixing hybrids but I have no equipment nor experience so I wanted to learn.

Also, is there a tech forum for Insight/IMA cars specifically that I can join? I'm really interested in them and experimenting with things like "lean burn", etc and running different ECU tunes.

Thanks!

[sendler]

Originally Posted by Honda100

I just completed my first fillup in my Prius (Gen 2, 2008) and managed 23.6 mpg.

That has to be the lowest tank ever recorded in a Prius. Was it a full tank? The Prius has a bladder tank and is notorious for it being more stretchy one day than another causing huge fill errors. Give it a full three tank average before you can know what economy it really gets.

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by Honda100

^^Re: disabling the auto start. How difficult is it to do for the average mechanic? I'm an 11 year mechanic with my own little shop and the actual purpose for me getting the hybrid was to learn how to fix them. I get a lot of my customers asking about fixing hybrids but I have no equipment nor experience so I wanted to learn.

Also, is there a tech forum for Insight/IMA cars specifically that I can join? I'm really interested in them and experimenting with things like "lean burn", etc and running different ECU tunes.

Thanks!

Easy enough, front window defroster on -> no AutoStop.
Eco mode off (does not influence FE!) -> less frequent AutoStop.
I doubt AutoStop is so bad.
It idles below 1000 RPM when the engine is warm. There is not much stress on the CVT belt unless you rev it (and even then, not too much).
It just needs the right CVT fluid changes every 25000 miles or so.

The specialist site would be Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum - Active Topics.

[cowmeat]

If you're using the car for city commuting and aren't interested in carrying more than one passenger and a couple of bags of groceries, I'd suggest a Gen-1 Insight over any make of the newer hybrids. Designers have had to vanilla the hybrids down over the years, as they're actually trying to SELL some of them now, rather than just fulfill a certain percentage for the government.

I'm really not doing anything special driving mine other than watching the instant mpg readout and trying to cruise at 100 mpg. I mean, I AM trying to get the max mpgs out of it I can, but I don't have a grill block, belly pan, mirror or wiper deletes, etc . . . it's straight up bone stock (for now). And I don't P&G, or EOC in it, I just drive it like it was meant to be driven.
My commute is right through downtown Lakeland Florida, then a straight stretch of about five miles, so it's over half stop-and-start.

[Honda100]

Originally Posted by sendler

That has to be the lowest tank ever recorded in a Prius. Was it a full tank? The Prius has a bladder tank and is notorious for it being more stretchy one day than another causing huge fill errors. Give it a full three tank average before you can know what economy it really gets.

It was from "stupid full", meaning filling out the filler neck (yes I know, bad) to about 2 bars (less than 1/4 tank).

The instant readout said 25.6 mpg, so it wasn't too far off. The car is in fine shape and such, I think it's just the ridiculous traffic I have to deal with.

Re: Gen 1, I use (my wife actually) the Prius for taking our kids (4 kids) so a gen 1 isn't really feasible. Also, I'd like to learn on the cars that people need fixing more often. A lot of Prius and Civic Hybrid owners have asked me (my garage is Honda/Toyota specific) about getting their cars fixed, but no dice. Thanks for the suggestion though, I remember visiting the Honda showroom when those came out. I was intrigued and I even saw the Jeremy Clarkson special that talked about them and how Honda lost money on everyone built. Have always wanted to try one but have never pulled the trigger.

[Cobb]

Thats why they had a law suit for the civic hybrid. If driven in heavy traffic it doesnt meet epa, like most cars. The hybrid system just helps you get better mpg. Another idea might be to go with a diesel.

When I was unemployed just dealing locally with traffic, short trips, etc thats how I got the 26mpg. I was easily able to get that up with a trip to another town as the mpg average isnt a straight average either.

Service is the same as any other car. There are a few people who rebuild batteries you can send it out to, order new ones or even get a reman from NAPA and has a 3 year warranty.

Rebuilding a battery is too labor intensive for a 100 bucks an hour mechanic. Its more for a DIYer.