Hoover dam as giant battery

[oil pan 4]

It's beneficial for Texas and new Mexico. California is getting screwed.

[freebeard]

Hoover dam is in Nevada.

hardware.slashdot.org:Can Hoover Dam Become a Giant $3B Battery? (cleantechnica.com)

A comment explains the length of the aqueduct, It reaches the next downstream dam.

No need to carve out a lower reservoir, it already exists in the form of Lake Mohave that is formed by Davis Dam. Davis Dam is about 40 miles downstream from my estimating on Google Maps, and looks to maintain its water level pretty much at the level of Hoover Dam's base. Below Davis Dam is Parker Dam which forms Lake Havasu.
As for letting more water through, all of the discharge from Hoover Dam currently goes through its powerhouses at a fraction of their peak capacity. This plan would use excess power to pump water back up the hill specifically so that water could be flowed through the powerhouses when power demand is high.

So the upper and lower reservoirs and [underutilized] turbines exist. All that's needed is the aqueduct and massive pumps.

cleantechnica.com:City Of Los Angeles Wants To Turn Hoover Dam Into World’s Largest Pumped Energy Storage Facility

Oh, LA. "Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."

[samwichse]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

California is getting screwed.

How?

[redpoint5]

It would be most efficient to transmit excess power to regions that can use it. Storing energy is a last resort, although a necessary one. There will always be need to store energy if we are to rely on renewables to a large extent, but the best solution is always to send excess supply to places unable to meet their demand.

freebeard- great post expounding on the topic. Not sure what you think of cleantechnica, but I boycott them due to the cult-like environment their unobjective leader has created, and their gross misrepresentation of and outright deceit of facts.

Originally Posted by samwichse

How?

CA ranks 44 out of 50 states for cheapest energy. They might be determined to edge out Hawaii for most expensive electricity.

[teoman]

How can the dam operate at %20 capacity? Would it not overfill?

Where does the accumulated water go?

It seems to me that the fam is only passing 20 percent of the water, the rest is going somewhere else.

[oil pan 4]

The hoover dam has been down over 100 feet in recent years they can't run it wide open because there isn't enough water coming into the dam. The hoover dam probably hasn't been ran at full capacity for a long period of time since the 90's.

California is getting screwed because like red point said they have the 6th most expensive power in the US.
Then California is going to buy the cheapest power in the United States and by the time the bureaucracy sells it to the customer it's nearly the most expensive power in the lower 48.
What did you actually think California was going to buy cheap wind power and pass that savings on to the customer? Ha, no thats not how socialism works.

The power companies out here in TX and NM have been working since 2007 or 2008 to get the Texas and south west grids interconnected so they could sell power to California.

[samwichse]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

California is getting screwed because like red point said they have the 6th most expensive power in the US.
Then California is going to buy the cheapest power in the United States and by the time the bureaucracy sells it to the customer it's nearly the most expensive power in the lower 48.
What did you actually think California was going to buy cheap wind power and pass that savings on to the customer? Ha, no thats not how socialism works.

Got it, so it can reduce costs, but it's bad because California is doing it to reduce their costs.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by samwichse

Got it, so it can reduce costs, but it's bad because California is doing it to reduce their costs.

It's potentially bad because it's $3,000,000,000 to send water up a hill. How much water do you need to send up a hill before you've derived $3 billion in benefit, plus interest, plus maintenance?

Let's ignore interest and other costs and just consider the $3 billion. At $0.04/kWh, you would need 75 billion kWh to justify the expense. That's enough power to supply 6,966,375 homes for a year.

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

freebeard- great post expounding on the topic. Not sure what you think of cleantechnica, but I boycott them due to the cult-like environment

Thanks. No opinion. But I've read Slashdot every day [since the 90s] even though it's no longer a career requirement. Slashdot was the first news aggregator, and has the best moderation system of anyone, even Reddit (whom Facespook is copying*).

Originally Posted by teoman

How can the dam operate at %20 capacity? Would it not overfill?

Where does the accumulated water go?

Hopefully, a little of it would go to Mexico.

Think of it as load-balancing. Caching and shifting electricity in time and space. The water that goes round and round between the upper and lower reservoir is the medium.

*Reddit lets you vote up or down (like and dislike) but Slashdot let's you say why (interesting, insightful, funny). And you can view comments at different score levels (and higher).

Among today's headlines:
New Shape Called the 'Scutoid' Has Been Discovered In Our Cells (gizmodo.com)
The Next iPad Pros Will Shrink and Lose Their Headphone Jacks, Says Report (9to5mac.com)

[jjackstone]

Originally Posted by samwichse

Got it, so it can reduce costs, but it's bad because California is doing it to reduce their costs.

I don't think it has anything to do with cost reduction for the general population. It has more to do with California's renewable energy requirements. Hydro storage is a form of renewable energy just as solar and wind are. The state has mandated 50% renewable energy generation by the year 2030 and is pushing for 100% by 2045. The power companies out here are still monopolies that are in business to make money so I don't expect them to lower their rates at all even though they are regulated by a citizen's utility board. Our current base rate is about 21.5 cents/kwh and goes up from there. PGE is trying to push a demand rate which would base the cost on the maximum usage in any one hour increment during the billing period. That will really hurt people. As for me, I plan to be grid free long before things get really nasty.
JJ