Hoover dam as giant battery

[Angel And The Wolf]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

That's interesting to say the least. Maybe not as efficient as using solar energy directly or to store it on batteries, but simply avoiding them altogether might decrease the risk of a haz-mat incident in case of something going bad.

It would be better to just add the solar created electricity to the grid. The conversion of electricity into mechanical energy nets a loss in efficiency.

[freebeard]

Sort of a grid of micro-grids.

[acparker]

California was once a major producer of oil and gas. Much of it is still there, if it is wanted.

Storing water in open reservoirs in the Mojave desert is asinine. Evaporation rates are extremely high, 96 inches per year -- like trying to store water in a sieve. These kinds of water battery schemes are best reserved for locations with hills, plenty of water and low evaporation rates -- like the Appalachias or the Cascades.

The IPP plant near Delta, Utah is slowly shutting down, after partner California municipalities withdrew due to imposed CO2 restrictions. Very little real emissions from its smokestack, other than water vapor and CO2, formerly the gold standard in combustion efficiency. Coal producers impacted by its probable closure have a ready market in Asia, but activists are blocking transshipment in Vancouver, Wash. and Oakland.

I have mixed feelings about the coal industry here. I don't mind the mines themselves (nearly all are underground) or the coal trains and powerplants, but coal trucks are the scourge of US89.

There is a lot of deep coal under the high plateaus. Some of the seams are over 400 ft. thick. You can't mine it with current technology, but in situ pyrolisis (or underground coal gasification, UCG) is a possibility. A proposal was made a few years ago to revisit development of the Kaiparowits reserves using UCG. It would certainly be better than slurry pipelines or coal trucks driving by every 6 minutes, 24/7/365.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by acparker

Storing water in open reservoirs in the Mojave desert is asinine. Evaporation rates are extremely high, 96 inches per year -- like trying to store water in a sieve.

It may be asinine, but not due to evaporation. When the source of water is the ocean, it doesn't matter what the evaporation rate is. In fact, evaporation just makes more room for more ocean water to rush in through the turbines.

Now, the humidity caused by all this might have unintended consequences, and I have no idea what so much evaporation does in terms of depositing salt, possibly filling in Death Valley to level with the sea.

[freebeard]

I thought it was a reference to Lake Mead. Which could be covered with photovoltaic panels to counter the evaporation.

In Death Valley I think the seawater would go into acres of enclosed bioreactors.

[Angel And The Wolf]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

It may be asinine, but not due to evaporation. When the source of water is the ocean,

The original post was about Hoover Dam

[acparker]

Ecological considerations aside, seawater would need to be pumped pretty high, at least a thousand feet, and quite a distance to reach Baker, the south and highest end of the valley, almost as far as Las Vegas is from the Gulf of California.

Salt buildup on the lake bottom would be a significant problem, and fairly soon.

I don't know as such a setup could be utilized effectively for energy storage. Any reservoir feeding into Death Valley would lose water at such a high rate that it would be terribly inefficient. Sounds like the perfect California project. Get Elon Musk involved. That's the ticket.

Now, of you could build two covered reservoirs or gigantic cisterns with enough elevation difference to be viable, then you could have a closed system with no (or far less) water loss.

Took too long to compose this response. In reference to freebeard, I could accept the proposal of covering Lake Mead and the Lower Colorado reservoirs with photovoltaics. It makes better sense than paving the desert with them. Even leaving enough open surface area for recreation would significantly reduce evaporation. It could even improve the fishery. The technology exists for the floating islands. Of course, transferring the electricity to shore might pose a safety risk to swimmers, water skiers and fish, if there is a short.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by acparker

Ecological considerations aside, seawater would need to be pumped pretty high, at least a thousand feet, and quite a distance to reach Baker, the south and highest end of the valley, almost as far as Las Vegas is from the Gulf of California.

freebeard suggested boring a hole to the Pacific to connect Death Valley. This is an area below sea level, not above. No pumping involved. You want massive evaporation so that sea water is forced to flow through the bored tunnel and turbines.

We'll just have to let other parts of the country have a chance at setting heat records.

[acparker]

Hmmm, a tunnel from the Pacific to Death Valley would definitely be Elon Musk's territory. He needs something to take attention away from his embarrassment in Thailand ... oh, and that Tesla thing ... and fraudulent SolarCity earnings claims.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by acparker

Hmmm, a tunnel from the Pacific to Death Valley would definitely be Elon Musk's territory. He needs something to take attention away from his embarrassment in Thailand ... oh, and that Tesla thing ... and fraudulent SolarCity earnings claims.

He needs nothing to distract from his many imprudent comments; history will never remember it. Somehow accomplishing what he has either requires certain unsavory character traits, or is a consequence of his accomplishment.

I'm as turned off by spin and salesmanship (the perception is reality, lie) as anyone else, but somehow it works on most people, to varying degrees.

While he'd probably overstate his ability to bore to the Pacific, if I had to place a bet on who would be most likely able to accomplish it, he'd be near the top of my list.