How to justify a scooter vs. a car

[NoCO2]

Ok, so as it stands right this moment, I'm stuck driving a car with an 21mpg combined EPA rating. And as luck would have it, my parents have decided to guilt trip me into not getting a scooter because, "We love you and we don't want to see you get killed on a scooter because someone wasn't watching where they were going."

I was just wondering if anyone knows where I can find statistics on scooter deaths/injuries vs. automobile deaths/injuries. I sort of want to just make sure I'm not going crazy, because, I have this theory that scooters might actually be safer then motorcycles because of a few factors like the speeds they can obtain and things motorcyclists tend to do that scooter drivers don't, etc. etc.

I'm also trying to understand there logic with this one... So, I told them I refuse to pay $4/gallon in a car with a 16 gallon tank (yea, $66 to fill up doesn't sound like something I want to put myself through) and told them that it's either they give me "permission"/blessing/whatever to get a scooter or I'm just going to start riding my bicycle...which I ride on the road...and somehow they are convinced that I'll be safer on the bicycle...I would think a scooter that goes the speedlimit would be much safer actually...am I right?

Anyway.......for now

[jamesqf]

Why not just start riding the bike anyway? If you look at the big picture, I think the long-term benefits over a lifetime (reduced risk of cardiovascular problems, diseases related to obesity, etc) would more than compensate for any increased risk from bike accidents.

[yakfishingfool]

go take a Motorcycle safety course, usually offered at a local community college. I will say, and i do ride, that when you ride you need to be on your A game. It is not something you do with a hundred things to worry about. It requires all your attention all the time. Good luck. Scott

[JohnnyGrey]

Your parents are right, just like mine were. I wanted to justify a Ninja 250, but could not for the following reasons:

1. I still need the car.
2. Insurance/purchase/maintenance cost will never be recovered.
3. I'm 21 times as likely to become an organ donor per each mile I travel, for reasons outside of my control.

[dcb]

I chose a motorcycle because I do feel safer keeping up with traffic. I really really wanted to make a bicycle work, but it was outside my risk/comfort zone. On a motorcycle I'm maybe times more likely to get in a fatal crash. I can live with that .

P.S. I spent many years with no other transportation than a motorcycle, good times, driving on ice and snow a couple times a year . There's folks with no vehicle at all, anything is possible.

And cost, well a few hundred for the bike purchase and like $80/year in insurance, and awesome MPG. Compared to a car I'm lightyears ahead in cost.

[dsq]

a bicycle is much more safe because its self propelled...a scooter can go deathly fast and has extremely crap handling -an organ donor for sure.Guilt your parents into getting you a honda vx or similar and hypermile it.If you must, buy a motorcycle at least it is a properly engineered piece of machinery.Scooters are dangerous,flimsy jdeathtrap imo.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by dcb

And cost, well a few hundred for the bike purchase and like $80/year in insurance, and awesome MPG. Compared to a car I'm lightyears ahead in cost.

I disagree about the awesomeness of motorcycle MPG. I've ridden motorcycles most of my life, and don't recall getting more than about 50 mpg or so. With my Insight I've been getting over 70 - one of the two reasons I don't ride much any more. (The other being that it's damned hard to carry a dog on a bike :-))

[dcb]

LOL, that was 50mpg without even trying, I'm getting 92mpg currently. What does your average car get again?

And carrying dogs? thats easy

[Lazarus]

Here's the info from another link but you know what they say about statistics. It's a little dated but gives you the general idea.

Originally Posted by trebuchet03

Here's the Adjusted statistic for 1996

Death's per 100,000
Car: .7
Walking: .19
Cycling: .09

And here they are for 1985
Car: .95
Walking: .39
Cycling: .24

You're about 8 times more likely to die in a car than a bike


Top ten list on how people on bikes die when done by a car...
1. 5.1% The bicyclist exited a driveway in front of an on-coming vehicle.
2. 4.3% The bicyclist turned left in front of a passing vehicle.
3. 3.9% The motorist was overtaking the bicyclist, cause of the accident unclear.
4. 2.7% The bicyclist was struck while traveling on the wrong (left) side of the road.
5. 1.4% The bicyclist, on the wrong side, turned right in front of a vehicle.
6. 1.3% The motorist was overtaking the bicyclist and failed to see him.
7. 1.2% The bicyclist lost control and swerved into the path of the vehicle.
8. .8% The bicyclist made a normal left turn but ignored on-coming traffic.
9. .6% The motorist lost control of the car and struck the bicyclist.
10. .5% The motorist struck a play vehicle (big wheel, bike with training wheels).

http://www.tfhrc.gov/safety/pedbike/...e/ctanbike.htm

AND pedestrians on a sidewalk are 7 times more likely to die than all cyclists as pedestrians have more fatalities per mile (http://www.bikewalk.org/assets/pdf/CASE15.PDF). One would think pedestrians are safer as they can look back much more easily and can jump out of the way...

So... The big numbers



Total Injuries (Not Adjusted)
Car: 3,400,000(1999)
Bike: 61,000 (1996)

Total Deaths (Not Adjusted)
Car: 41,611 (1999)
Bike: 850 (1996)


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I guess I should mention... All of the roads I drive on are 35+mph and the longest legs of my daily commute have a speed limit of 45.

EDIT:
Here is an up to date resource - more official like too

http://hazmat.dot.gov/riskmgmt/riskcompare.htm

Car: 1 out of 7,700 died between 1999 and 2003
Bike: 1 out of 410,000 died between 1999 and 2003
Pedestrian: 1 out of 58,000
Large Trucks: 1 out of 55,000

You're 53x more likely to die in a car than a bike.

You're more likely to die on a train or recreational boat than on a bike

[trikkonceptz]

Say what you will about cars, but it would depend strongly on where you live. As a personal note I am on this mission to improve efficiency because my best friend currently sits in a hospital recovering from an accident he had on his motorcycle. He was hit by a car, a lady on her freakin cell phone. He will likely have permanent brain damage despite wearing a helmet and that will be the best scenario if his physical wounds heal 100%.

Oh BTW, he OWNS a SCION xA, his excuse for getting a bike was better gas mileage. And I have dozens of friends I have lost to bikes, which I love and use to build, but the general public is just to stupid to respect them on the road.

So stay on 4 wheels and have fun Hypermiling, unless you want to reduce your carbon footprint by leaving this world ..