06-24-2010, 11:21 PM
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#31 (permalink)
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Left Lane Ecodriver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverinsight2
May I present the Ford Nucleon
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Wow, I bet that thing has 50/50 front/rear weight distribution, too. I wonder, does it deliver steam to a motor at each wheel, or what?
I'm sure some less-than-green fellow would install a remote starter on it, too. Or rig it up to run the reactor 24/7.
Also, I read about cars with nuclear reactors in them in a Tom Clancy book. Rather, they were warheads installed inside hollowed-out A/C compressors, strategically distributed across the US by some Japanese organization or another, and used for nefarious purposes.
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06-25-2010, 03:08 AM
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#32 (permalink)
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aero guerrilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Tele man
...are you talking about a Detroit-Made SUV-Nuclear-reactor, or an Japanese or European made reactor (wink,wink)?
...GM could name it the '3-Mile-Island SUV'.
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How about Russian SUV producer UAZ makes a luxury model called Chernobyl?
"This engine will give you explosive acceleration, leaving everyone else in your (fallout) wake..."
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e·co·mod·ding: the art of turning vehicles into what they should be
What matters is where you're going, not how fast.
"... we humans tend to screw up everything that's good enough as it is...or everything that we're attracted to, we love to go and defile it." - Chris Cornell
[Old] Piwoslaw's Peugeot 307sw modding thread
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07-09-2010, 01:08 AM
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#33 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
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So, maybe the electricity would not be available to run an EV, but it is used to refine the gasoline; and it should be added to the carbon footprint of gasoline.
Here's the best source on this question, that I have found:
Gasoline and Oil
Which is really too bad -- why can't we find authoritative sources on this?
Extracting oil takes a lot of electricity. Refining oil takes a lot of electricity and natural gas.
A lot of our military spending goes to defending our oil supply.
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07-09-2010, 10:52 AM
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#34 (permalink)
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Left Lane Ecodriver
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I do consider the Department of Energy's Energy Information Administration to be authorative.
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07-09-2010, 11:39 AM
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#35 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
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Hi Matt,
I've been looking around that site, and it is a bit dense -- lots of info, but not very easy to find specific answers. Do you have a direct link to how much energy is embedded in gasoline?
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07-09-2010, 01:15 PM
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#36 (permalink)
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Left Lane Ecodriver
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Neil,
Would it settle the matter?
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07-09-2010, 01:27 PM
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#37 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
What if someone made a solar panel factory that was powered by solar panels? Then used panels made in that factory to power another factory that made more solar panels?
Rinse, repeat.
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Sounds like a show I watched about a large farm totally powered by its own cow dung.
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Winter daily driver, parked most days right now
Summer daily driver
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07-10-2010, 03:51 PM
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#38 (permalink)
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...beats walking...
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...this is just an annecdotal comparison, but a TV show about mining shale-oil in Canada mentioned that it took:
1 barrel of recovered oil to produce 25 barrels of normal (drilling) liquid oil
1 barrel of recovered oil to produce just 5 barrels of usable liquid oil.
...takeaway is: it's 5X harder to extract oil from shale oil than to simply drill for it.
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07-10-2010, 06:19 PM
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#39 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard
Hi Matt,
I've been looking around that site, and it is a bit dense -- lots of info, but not very easy to find specific answers. Do you have a direct link to how much energy is embedded in gasoline?
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Neil,
This PDF seems to show that gasoline refining is 87.7% efficient and 4.3% of the energy used is purchased electricity.
http://www.transportation.anl.gov/mo...ries-03-08.pdf
So I'm not sure you can just say that 7.5 kWhr went into the gasoline that could have been used for charging an EV. I think you'd have to use the 4.3% that was purchased. If the balanced was burned fossil fuels, you'd still have to convert that to electricity, so apply a 1/3 multiplier to that (to convert it to electricity instead of burning for refining).
So, 100 - 87.7 = 12.3% used for refining.
12.3% X 4.3% = 0.529% was purchased electricity.
33.4 kWhr/gal X .529% = 176.7 Whr of purchased electricity "embedded" in each gallon.
100 - 4.3 = 95.7% of energy used for refining was from "petroleum" sources.
95.7% X 12.3% = 11.77% of the energy in each gallon was "embedded" burned fossil fuels.
33.4 kWhr/gal X 11.77% = 3.93 kWhr of "embedded" refining energy from fossil fuels. But we cannot use that as electricity without burning it in an engine, so divide by 3. (Even so, I'm not sure you could just burn it in an engine to make electricity without refining it first).
3.93/3 = 1.31 kWhr that we would have if we burned the fossil fuel to make electricity instead of refining the gasoline.
1,310 + 176.7 = 1,487 Whrs of electricity we could have had to charge the EV instead of it being used to make the gasoline, about 1/5th of Nissan's number.
OK, what's wrong with my math?
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07-12-2010, 02:20 PM
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#40 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
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Something I never even realized is that drilling a well requires Drilling fluid/Drilling Mud. This stuff uses a lot of water and clay with added chemicals. It's very energy consuming to make and to transport.
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