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Old 11-02-2020, 04:19 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I cheated, every chance I got!

Cheating:


Cheating:


There's your problem:


More cheating:


The last bit of cheating:


Cleaned:


Back together:


Checking that it was all the way in:


Damned boot!

Fixed:


Look, Ma, no rust!


And no more stupid-loud growling bearing noise.

How'd I cheat?
I don't have a press. My slide hammer kit made up for it. Twice. Don't have a bearing separator, so I cut the race off. Pressed the last 1/8" on using the CV shaft and it's nut, since the slide hammer bits were past their limit already.
My ball join separator was too big to fit with the CV shaft in the way. So I ignored the FSM's procedure and dropped the other end of the control arm. Problem solved, without beating on hard-to-find aluminum knuckles and/or control arms.

What a way to spend the whole morning.

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Last edited by Stubby79; 11-02-2020 at 04:34 PM..
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Old 11-02-2020, 05:46 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 53.56 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 61.98 mpg (US)

Fancy Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 58.72 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 64.03 mpg (US)
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Good for you. I've only had to change one wheel bearing in my life, and I took the knuckle off the car and brought it to my mechanic.


Are you retired?


Also: mods you should be planning:


1) Engine kill switch. You're going to discover that the default programming doesn't stop the engine nearly as soon/often as you will want it to. EG. it won't stop the engine above a certain (low-ish) speed... much loss of potential fuel savings right there.

There are numerous approaches for accomplishing this. I chose the easiest/simplest.

2) "Clutch switch": enables you to decide if/when you want assist. Very useful in preserving SOC in a weak-ish battery pack.

I mostly drove mine without using assist, but regularly flipped the switch to access regen.

(PS: you should really have a dedicated thread for this! It's a vehicle, not a random small thing! If you agree, I don't mind moving the existing posts over. Just tell me what title you want on the thread.)
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Old 11-03-2020, 02:58 AM   #23 (permalink)
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90 day: 107.65 mpg (US)

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90 day: 33.35 mpg (US)

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90 day: 17.19 mpg (US)
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Thanks for the tips.

I haven't come up with a title yet - that isn't dirty - which is why I haven't asked. And I wanted to drive it more than around the block first!

I wish I was retired. Of course, I'm not sure what context you mean that in. No, I'm not a retired mechanic, and no, I'm not retired so that I can spend all morning working on things. I'm crazy, that's all.

Last edited by Stubby79; 11-03-2020 at 06:31 AM..
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Old 11-03-2020, 08:47 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Firefly EV - '98 Pontiac Firefly EV
90 day: 107.65 mpg (US)

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90 day: 33.35 mpg (US)

BlueZ - '19 Nissan 370Z Sport
90 day: 17.19 mpg (US)
Thanks: 74
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I went for broke...



Almost. It was taking too long to hit my goal of 50V, so I chickened out at 66.

0.6Vx120 cells = 72v. 0.4Vx120 =48v. Numbers given by "battery university" regarding nickel cell reconditioning. 0.6v being the minimum to have an effect from one quoted source, 0.4v being suggested by another source as the goal.

The problem there being that only works if you are doing single cells, or by some miracle, they all stay in balance...which is basically impossible.

It all might be a load of BS, but I did read "50V" being the absolute maximum one seemingly informed user posted on insight central.

Watched a youtube video where one guy had "great results" from driving his pack don to 0v, which he did once or twice a year and had supposedly put 100k on his supposedly "bad" pack by doing this. He seemed very un-informed, though. Absolutely no research or science behind his choices. But at least, if he wasn't lying, it suggested that the pack won't go belly up if you "accidentally" discharge it too low.

It's all about the cells being balanced, because unbalanced cells means they will - reportedly, from many sites - go in to "cell reversal", where they literally flip polarity and can/will be damaged irreversibly. Hence why I took several discharge/charge cycles before going for an even deeper discharge. The idea was to revive and, hopefully, balance as many cells as possible first. Otherwise the weakest cells would have gone deep in to reversal.

In theory, the worst cells should have been the first ones to drop low and then be reconditioned. Which means on the second cycle, they would not be the weakest (they could have, in face, been the strongest, if they weren't actually damaged). So a second group of cells would have been the first to bottom out and get reconditioned on the second cycle. And again on the third.

The deep discharge was, realistically, to catch the cells that were the most healthy to begin with, so that all cells would be reconditioned at the end of it. Not having gone all the way down to 48v means I could have missed some...but then again, if they were that healthy, they probably didn't need reconditioning.

Take all this with a grain of salt. It's what made sense to me to do, while minimizing risk....at least without actually pulling the pack out and reconditioning each stick individually. That would be the best/safest way. I don't see much point in going through all that effort though, unless the pack can show me it's got enough life in it to be worth it.

Considering I bought it assuming the pack was toast, I wasn't counting on being able to revive it.

Considering even if I went through all that effort, it would probably still be a turd - it's not going to come back to 100% capacity, no matter what I do - it wouldn't be worth my time.

Hence, I went with an approach that I expect would prevent making it worse than it already was, without wasting unnecessary effort. I was in no rush while i was waiting on parts, after all, and I have other vehicles. A week of charge/discharge cycles where the most effort I put in was in modifying the charge cord seems right up my lazy alley.

I could have assumed it was never going to revive, at all, and just tanked it right down to 0 volts the first try...reversing most of the cells in the process. Not how I do things.

22 hours in:



Highest voltage I've seen yet. Fingers crossed, that's a good thing. The highest I've seen it previously is 172, which quickly settled to 170...as this chemistry of battery drop 0.05v once they hit 100% SOC. I think 176 is the max a healthy pack will hit...

I'll find out if it was worth even this much bother later...haven't hit 24 hours charge yet, haven't fixed the leaky roof/pillar seals and it's decided to piss down rain this morning...might just wait until tomorrow. Might let it keep charging until the voltage it settles.

I'd be chewing my nails in anticipation if I was more excitable by nature.
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Old 11-03-2020, 03:34 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Firefly EV - '98 Pontiac Firefly EV
90 day: 107.65 mpg (US)

Little Boy Blue - '05 Toyota Echo
90 day: 33.35 mpg (US)

BlueZ - '19 Nissan 370Z Sport
90 day: 17.19 mpg (US)
Thanks: 74
Thanked 566 Times in 422 Posts
The plot sickens...

Reset the IMA, light didn't go away. Wasn't sure it would just buzz off or not, so took it for a drive. Still didn't go away.

Finally got around to checking the CEL for codes...my cheap scanner telling me there's issues with the throttle position sensor and the throttle control valve.

Well, that's annoying. So I cleaned the engine ground connections(They weren't pretty).

One of them went away, and so far has stayed away. Yay!

The other kept coming back.

Ok, fine, time to check what to look at to fix it...

Oh, drat...my scanner is stupid, doesn't know this is an Insight...nothing to do with the TPS and whatnot. All to do with the IMA.

Well, at least it idles better and keeps the voltage up easier.

Deep dive coming up. Of course, I'll find the BCM/IMA's grounds and clean those first. Makes sense that if one code went away with the other end of the ground circuit cleaned, the other one might if the other end is cleaned.

Yeah, hoping too much. But I bet it all comes down to corrosion somewhere.
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Old 11-04-2020, 01:59 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Firefly EV - '98 Pontiac Firefly EV
90 day: 107.65 mpg (US)

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90 day: 33.35 mpg (US)

BlueZ - '19 Nissan 370Z Sport
90 day: 17.19 mpg (US)
Thanks: 74
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Cleaned the one obvious ground connection at the IMA setup. Didn't fix anything. I have a disparity between two current sensors - battery and MCM, I think - that is disabling the hybrid side of things. I could easily check the battery one, it's reading about where it should with no current going through it. The other one requires current going through it to get anything out of it. Well, the battery one would need current going through it to verify that it's responding, but the test I did at least shows the circuitry that runs it is working right.

The headlights were pathetic before. They're nice and bright since cleaning the ground connections.

The engine also runs so much smoother, especially at idle, with the clean grounds. Peppier too, more noticably at low rpm.

Need to get the front brake rotors turned or replaced...now that she's quiet (bearing) and smooth running, the shaking steering wheel when you brake jumps out as the biggest annoyance.

I'll probably have to pull the battery pack out to get at the sensors. Watching a video on it, it looks pretty darn easy. Then comes the task of magically testing the sensors in question without the IMA's module hooked to power them properly. Fun.

Sigh. No one local has rotors. Will hold off until I've at least checked out the rears before ordering online.

Last edited by Stubby79; 11-04-2020 at 03:02 PM..
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Old 11-05-2020, 03:09 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Firefly EV - '98 Pontiac Firefly EV
90 day: 107.65 mpg (US)

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90 day: 33.35 mpg (US)

BlueZ - '19 Nissan 370Z Sport
90 day: 17.19 mpg (US)
Thanks: 74
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I thought I could outsmart the IMA light...

Nope.

So I went brute-force and unplugged all the connectors going to the battery pack.

No more IMA light! HA! I WIN!

(Ok, not really.)

What did I win for all my messing around? a different code! Yay!

I did learn some useful things:

The motor controller works! So does the electric motor!

I know this because I also learned...

The hybrid motor will start the engine if you skip straight to "Start" rather than going to "On", presumably because there is a delay of the BCM or whatever turning off the IMA for a moment as everything boots up.

That's a good start. And a "good start". Fires right up, no slow chug-chug as the starter motor tries to overcome compression.

I verified it by disconnecting the starter's solenoid. Spent more time and effort getting the spade connector back on blindly/by feel than any one other thing.

I like the idea that I can start the engine, even if the 12v battery is too weak to do it.

I also learned that the HV wires going to the battery side have plenty of capacitance, and that the discharge resistor(or some other drain) must be on the battery side. That could have been ugly, if I hadn't taken steps to prevent and check things before continuing. MMmm...190 volts. Tasty!

I don't think the electric power steering works. The fuse was pulled, I put it back...and didn't notice any difference in the steering, nor any voltage drop when steering. Oh well, I wasn't expecting it to have any kind of P/S in the first place.

I suppose I didn't take my attempted out-smarting as far as I could have...

...and I couldn't leave it alone. Just went back and debunked my theory/workaround. Had another one since, will have to see if I can implement that somehow...the 0-state voltage of the battery current sensor should be 2.50, and I read 2.65...might be far enough off to make it think there's more or less current going through it. Hmm.

Anywho, still looks like I need to pull the battery to get at the sensors. I'll try any other ideas in the meantime, that can wait for the weekend...
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Old 11-07-2020, 11:15 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Firefly EV - '98 Pontiac Firefly EV
90 day: 107.65 mpg (US)

Little Boy Blue - '05 Toyota Echo
90 day: 33.35 mpg (US)

BlueZ - '19 Nissan 370Z Sport
90 day: 17.19 mpg (US)
Thanks: 74
Thanked 566 Times in 422 Posts
Weather was good, couldn't resist driving her to work last night.

So smooth and quiet on the highway! Color me impressed!

Lifetime fuel consumption:


Drive to work and back. 2 cold starts. (and I mean cold...she was covered in frost in the morning!):


That's 54mpg, for us simpler folks.

It's just one trip, but that beats where I got my modified Metro convertible, which was giving me 52mpg. (And, judging by that familiar tread pattern, also had Potenza tires on it...who knew!)

That's the kind of encouragement I was hoping for...will give me motivation to keep plugging away at her.
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Old 11-07-2020, 06:26 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,115

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 53.56 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 61.98 mpg (US)

Fancy Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 58.72 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 64.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,752
Thanked 6,565 Times in 3,403 Posts
Woohoo for the first drive!!


Another common maintenance project on these is to clean the EGR passages, which tend to plug up with carbon over time. It affects the car's driveability in lean burn mode. Mine bucked a bit with small throttle changes until I did that task, then after that it was lovely.
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Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: Oops, I did it again! Bought another cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage. Mods in progress...
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
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Old 11-07-2020, 11:45 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 1,736

Firefly EV - '98 Pontiac Firefly EV
90 day: 107.65 mpg (US)

Little Boy Blue - '05 Toyota Echo
90 day: 33.35 mpg (US)

BlueZ - '19 Nissan 370Z Sport
90 day: 17.19 mpg (US)
Thanks: 74
Thanked 566 Times in 422 Posts
Supposedly the EGR was cleaned by the previous previous owner. Of course, I don't know how many miles have been put on it since. At least I know what symptom to look out for now. Thanks!

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