interesting trend? Slush boxes getting better MPG's?

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by SuperTrooper

Lower price cars offer manuals because they are lower priced cars. Autos add $800-1000 to the price of a new car. That's a big chunk in cars costing less than $20k.

OK, but why do higher-priced cars (Porsche & equivalent) offer manuals? Not just offer them, but have them as standard equipment on the majority of cars - if indeed, an automatic is even offered?

[LostCause]

I think the future trend will be servo-operated manuals. I believe the automatic Smart Car has an computer/servo controlled manual, clutched gearbox. To the layman, you get the best of both worlds.

- LostCause

[reformed]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

OK, but why do higher-priced cars (Porsche & equivalent) offer manuals? Not just offer them, but have them as standard equipment on the majority of cars - if indeed, an automatic is even offered?

This is because someone who drives a sports car wants the "feel" of a manual transmission. Much more responsive and less power loss through drivetrain than through an automatic, not to mention much lighter than an auto trans. All great reasons why to incorporate into a sports car, whose very design is to extract the most amount of power out of the package. Manuals are great for fuel economy too because they are lighter, transfer more power to the wheels (meaning you use less power to get the car moving) and allow you more control to vary your driving for FE. In my experience, autos are good for one thing only, convenience. People want/have to drink their coffee, smoke their cig and talk on the phone all at once while driving, impossible in a manual.

[MechEngVT]

I'm a fan of manuals myself, but I do have to admit that autos serve very well in most classes of drag racing. They let engine builders go for large hi-rpm horsepower without having to worry about bogging the engine (hi-stall converters) and shift much more quickly and consistently than a stick, maximizing time with power to the wheels and minimizing chances of breaking out or missing the time for bracket racers.

I have to wonder about autos with higher EPA ratings...does it translate to reality or is it because the PCMs are "gaming" the drive cycle? I still believe that it would be easier to get better mileage through altered driving habits out of a stick than a manual.

[cfg83]

LostCause -

Originally Posted by LostCause

I think the future trend will be servo-operated manuals. I believe the automatic Smart Car has an computer/servo controlled manual, clutched gearbox. To the layman, you get the best of both worlds.

- LostCause

I'm a manual snob but I agree that the Autos are getting better. Conceptually, the CVT *sounds* superior to me.

In the USA, autos are the majority of purchases. I am pretty sure that in Europe, manuals are equal or more. If I'm going to sell a car in the USA, I'm going to offer an auto first.

If autos are the future ( booooo! ), then I hope they at least offer manu-matics (as in the Smarts and luxury cars), so the driver can choose the gearing. That way, I can at least stay in the high gear as I want.

CarloSW2

[NeilBlanchard]

Hello,

CVT may be better than both: the Nissan Versa is case is point:

The manual is a six speed: 26/31
The auto is a four speed: 24/32
The CVT is only on the SL: 27/33

[Bror Jace]

I'm with Warhawk626. The trend towards automatics is a convenience/dumbed-down thing. I'll admit I'm a manual snob... and no, I'm not even thinking about seeking treatment.

Yes, automatics work better in a few high-performance applications such as drag racing and (some) off-roading. Also, I think F-1 car transmissions can be classified as automatics ... just no fluid couplings between the drive and the engine).

My friend's theory on autos getting better mileage comes down to cruise control. The manuals are geared lower (higher number) so they can pull long grades on the interstates where as an automatic is geared higher (lower number) as it can shift down while in cruise control. Again, back to Warhawk626's idea of convenience and general ignorance.

Me? I'd drop cruise if I could get extra-higher gearing for my Civic. Can't see why one of these beasts couldn't get 45-48+mpg at a steady 60-65mph on the interstates in warm weather.

[jamesqf]

Of course in a few years it'll all be moot (except for classic car collectors), as mainstream cars will be PHEV with electric primary drive, and a turbine or Sterling engine as a range extender...

[ttoyoda]

I have to wonder about autos with higher EPA ratings...does it translate to reality or is it because the PCMs are "gaming" the drive cycle? I still believe that it would be easier to get better mileage through altered driving habits out of a stick than a manual.

Exactly right. The bosses bosses boss comes down to engineering and declares "mileage must improve, I don't care how you do it". Now we know EXACTLY what the EPA mileage cycle will consist of. EXACTLY. We could build an ECU that recognized the EPA test if we wanted to, and hypermile the engine when we detect an EPA test is being run. Piece of cake.
I wonder if the emissions test are done with the EPA drive cycle. If not, lean burn and to hades with the NOX here we come

[RH77]

It's just the shear amount of automatics bought new. Trends show that the general populace doesn't want to "mess" with their vehicles any more than they have to. This includes changing gears.

I've noted better City MPG in Nissan CVTs -- lower RPMs and higher loads.

If I use the "manual" function on our automatic, I can general force a higher gear and a bit better FE. But the ECU decides what conditions are appropriate. Yes, I often complain out loud -- "I asked for 5th. Gimme 5th gear!!! Car: no response.

"Clutchless Manuals" or DSGs, etc. may be the compromise, but at a higher initial cost. Some can be "fully automatic" and others have to have some interaction.

For me, I genuinely miss the stick shift. Rowing through the gears keeps you involved and in full control. It all comes down to gearing. Take a look at the Chevy Cobalt XFE. Manual only and a better ratio.

RH77