Just bought a '90 Metro XFi, have questions... - Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum

ohmycivic · 09-17-2008, 05:20 PM

Found it in Greenville, WI with 91k original miles, got it for $850. Haven't even gotten it home yet (need another driver) but I'll have it safely in my driveway tonight when I can find another driver -- having weekdays off is lonely...

This is an $850 car, make no mistake. Needs a new and oil pan gasket, and the radiator is on its last legs (replacements for both came with the car, and I'm capable of doing that level of work). While it runs like a song, it's pretty beat up both inside and out. Nothing that'll affect safety, but things like missing locks, buttons, etc and general ugliness are bothering me. I've driven cars in worse condition, but considering how hard I've looked for one of these I'm inclined to make it reflect my pride in finding one.

Down to business. I want to find a shell to drop the engine into. While I'm at it, some MPG modding wouldn't hurt. I'm not really a "car guy" (in fact, I more-or-less gave up on my last project, Unmodding the '91 Civic DX, since it just didn't seem worth the effort) so I don't really know what this'll involve. I guess I'd like to know what I can drop the engine into? Obviously 90-94 Metro shells, but what would it involve to plop it into a '95 or later Metro? What about a Miata, Civic, or VW? I'm really only considering hatchbacks (except in the case of an oh-so-cool Miata) since I'm a pizza delivery driver. Should I bother plopping it into a Mazda MX-3 shell I've found? Ideally I'd redo the whole frame as aluminum tubing, but fabrication at that level is beyond my ability.

Also, what are some MPG mods I could do? I've heard of swapping out the fifth gear for better ratios (don't know if I should do this considering I'm delivering pizza and cover the full range of 15-25-35-45-55-65 MPH every day) and replacing computers, but are these things I'm capable of? To give an idea of my abilities, about the most complex things I've done without a Haynes manual are swapping out a starter, changing spark plugs and disc brake pads, and installing stereo systems. I am mechanically able enough to do anything in a Haynes manual, though.

I have a remaining budget of about $1150, and winter is fast approaching. Down time for the car during projects cannot be more than 10 hours at a time since I need to drive it at least every other day and that's about all I can afford to spare from the rest of the stuff I have to get done on my days off.

Red · 09-17-2008, 06:13 PM

Well I think you've already got the best gearing and engine setup for a Metro seeing as how you have an XFi. Due to the power band of the car, you'd probably only want to drop it into another shell of a similar weight as the Metro. Not sure how you would be able to get it in a Miata since its a RWD car, and the Metro is setup as FWD. With the right trans you could do it, but I think like a VX its the trans that helps you get the FE the XFi gets its fame for

TestDrive · 09-17-2008, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohmycivic

This is an $850 car, make no mistake. Needs a new and oil pan gasket, and the radiator is on its last legs (replacements for both came with the car, and I'm capable of doing that level of work). While it runs like a song, it's pretty beat up both inside and out. Nothing that'll affect safety, but things like missing locks, buttons, etc and general ugliness are bothering me. I've driven cars in worse condition, but considering how hard I've looked for one of these I'm inclined to make it reflect my pride in finding one.

Down to business. I want to find a shell to drop the engine into.

<snip>

I have a remaining budget of about $1150, and winter is fast approaching. Down time for the car during projects cannot be more than 10 hours at a time since I need to drive it at least every other day and that's about all I can afford to spare from the rest of the stuff I have to get done on my days off.

Might be simpler and cheaper to fix what you've got - or not. Do you have pictures of what's wrong with the shell?
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...pair-4823.html

bbjsw10 · 09-17-2008, 07:21 PM

I have a 91 Xfi and love it, just fix what you have or find a good Metro shell. I wouldn't try to swap into a different car it would not be worth your time. There are not too many cars on road as light as Xfi so that drivetrain would not power it down the road too well.

There is alot of useful info for those cars on here.
Project 60/60 Xfi
Mullet's Metro project
My Xfi build.
Lexan headlight covers

metromizer · 09-17-2008, 07:21 PM

The idea of swapping over running gear to a second 'shell', the term "not really a car guy" and pizza delivery driver for a job lead me to believe this will be a huge task to accomplish. You should just sell the Xfi to me

I'm mostly joking, but if you don't really enjoy working on cars, you are not likely to have a good time with the Xfi or any car for that matter that needs a ton of work. Trust me on this, I've built several cars and modified the heck out of a few others. I've never paid myself back in the suposed labor costs savings. But I enjoy tinkering, re-engineering things, cutting welding, and machining parts.

ohmycivic · 09-17-2008, 10:48 PM

Thanks for confirming my prime concern -- namely, that a shell swap into a different vehicle isn't worth the added weight. I'm still curious about the later generation Geo shells, though, since the last time I saw a gen 1 Metro without rust was when my mother owned one new in '93.

It's not that I don't enjoy working on cars, I actually find it very rewarding when I'm able to do something myself. Pretty much ALL of the experience I've had with automobile repair has been over the last few years since I started delivering pizza. The rub is that with putting on upwards of 30k miles per year it's not really been worth it to buy a car that's anything but disposable (since resale is essentially nill and most "nicer" cars get rather poor MPG), and as such doing more than just the general maintenance work always seemed rather silly. I've never welded or done any machining before, but I love to do things myself and am very mechanically inclined (first year of an electromechaical tech degree completed, which is mostly drive systems, physics, and DC and logic) so putting the work into it isn't what's preventing me, it's not really knowing where to start or what should be done. I'm just lacking the automobile experience.

But this car I'm proud of. It was a task simply to find one, and then I managed to beat out about a dozen people who were going to come look at it after me today (hooray for having cash!). And it had only been listed for three hours. It's easier to find a CRX HF around here than a Metro XFi.

The car drives beautifully. Nothing that's important or safety-related (aside from the oil pan gasket and radiator as previously mentioned) is missing or damaged, it's just that I feel the pride of ownership -- not to mention the tips are affected by appearance of both yourself and your vehicle. I could theoretically replace the interior piece-by-piece from local junkyards, swap out the doors and hatch, get new locks, and learn to do or have someone else do the little remaining body work, but really a full shell swap just seems easier and would probably end up costing about the same if not less. More about wanting to do the work rather than NEEDING to do the work I guess.

Pics will have to wait. I just got home and the wife wants to spend time with me before I leave for two days. By the time I get back on Friday it'll be too dark, and then on Saturday I have a wedding to go to, and on Sunday it's a 12 hour work shift. I'll try to get them on Saturday though.

Johnny Mullet · 09-17-2008, 11:15 PM

You can swap into a 1995 or newer shell and just use all the wiring and PCM from the XFi, but if I were you, I would just fix up that car until it's safe and drive the hell out of it. This way you can laugh frantically as you keep passing the gas pumps. The madness will hide all the ugliness

mavinwy · 09-18-2008, 09:34 AM

Actually, on a metro, I think you will find it easier to swap the parts that you are missing or that are broken and to either do the body repair or have it done.

The good, fenders, doors and hatch are all relatively simple to change out on the exterior too.

As far as the interior, most evereything is either clipped, bolted or screwed into place. As long as you take your time...it is easy to make those changes one by one as money allows.

Unless you are really ready to tackle an entire weekend project of an engine swap, and already have a perfect "shell"....you would likely just be better off to fix this one up. Remember that no ongine swap is as simple as it looks. Bolts will break, you will find parts to replace "as long as you are there", and there are always little hassles. If you really want to do it though...go for it. Just make sure you have everything you need first.

As far as swapping to a second gen...rmember that they were heavier and you will lose some mpg.

Jim

ohmycivic · 09-18-2008, 10:25 AM

Okay, so it looks like I'll be doing a piece by piece swap instead of a whole shell swap... there are a few pull-it-yourself junkyards within 5 miles of me, and I know that at least one of them has a bunch of metros so I won't be at a loss for parts anyway.

I've seen people list things like hyper-inflating tires and advancing their timing in order to improve FE... what are the downsides to doing these, and what does it really involve? I'm assuming shorter tire life for the overinflating, and perhaps risk of engine damage or more carbon buildup from the timing but again that's just an assumption.

I'm trying to get a better understanding of aeromodding. I'm a bit confused when it comes to "vortexes" being created in the rear of the vehicle... I'm thinking that's where the wind "curls" around the back of the car, and that the "boat butt" mods smooth that out. Is that right?

99metro · 09-18-2008, 12:00 PM

I have an older G10 in my 99. The main difference is the crank sensor and pulleys. If you found a newer style body, the engine will go right in. To get the most out of the XFI engine, yes you will need the computer also. The XFIs had a lighter body however.

I would just keep the car/engine combo you have and get some salvage yard seats and whatever you need. You have nothing to lose on this car you have, so modding it would be fun!