Mazda exec says EPA testing is reason company doesn't have Stop/Start feature in U.S.

[UltArc]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Hi Darin,

I wonder if the regulation included FE numbers from the FuelEconomy.gov web site, which are actual, self-reported fuel use, that this would do several things: the car companies would get credit for what people were actually doing, and it would be a real world incentive for them to encourage people to actually get good mileage?

For example, my car is a 2005 Scion xA with manual 5-speed: the EPA (2007) ratings for this model are : 27/34/30. There are six people reporting an average of 36.4mpg -- this has to be considered a "combined" number, so Scion/Toyota would get credit for 36+ rather than 30mpg. (By the way, my lifetime average for 226 tankfuls is now above 40mpg!)

I don't know if that would really work out :/

Plus, the FE.gov calls BS on certain results. All of my tanks over ~37mpg come with a question mark and say it's too high of mpg- they calculate my LMPG as ~32 ish for public view, while the regular view for me (loaded with question marks lol) is >34.

And as much as you have great drivers, and some ecomodders, the amount of people who replaced their throttle with on/off switches will most definitely cancel it out, or at least bring it closer to the EPA.

And at the same time, the numbers are skewed. I find often when I talk about mods (explain why my car looks goofy, or am excited from a fill up), others don't even KNOW what their MPG is, they either have a guess, "it is usually like 30 bucks," or every so often they look at a standard issue gauge that has never been reset or checked. My point is, until our cars record out mileage and send it somewhere, real world results won't get it*. This point is also that the mileage that is reported isn't done by the majority or people who don't really care (60-90%?).

*As cool as it would be to show the government how great of drivers/modifiers we are, I would rather not pay more money for a tracking & reporting device in my car informing the manufacturer and government of everything I do.

****Beep beep beep beep beep!!!****
Grunt watching screen: Sir, the computer is showing this Mustang is driving in a 35, he is doing 41, and now he turned his engine off...and he is not slowing down!
Commander: Summon the authorities!

Originally Posted by cfg83

MetroMPG -



Hmmmmm, too bad. Why not offer this as an "eco-option" and charge more money for it like roflwaffle says? I am sure there is a small contingent of people that would pay for this. Try it for one year as an experiment, see what happens, and collect green(washing?) credits in the meantime.

When I think of Mazda, I don't associate them as much with good MPG. I associate them with their "zoom zoom" performance ads. Actually, whenever I have been looking at new cars, it's the EPA MPG ratings of the Mazdas that have crossed them off my list.

I definitely see the benefit of changing the EPA test to reward the start/stop tech. It's a no-brainer. If nothing else, the auto companies should create a very-close-to-EPA test of their own (like an ISO standard) that they can use in their ads. Call it City-SSTech MPG or what not. Build it into the sell.

CarloSW2

10 years ago I thought of them that way, but over the past few years, they have been up to some great stuff. I am totally infatuated with the CX-5, and I am very impressed with their other vehicles utilizing "Sky Active" technology. I am more so impressed with Subaru, but I don't scoff at Mazda, and they are moving up the rank of vehicles I suggest.

I don't get why there isn't an option from every manufacturer for this. I imagine the issue is getting it setup and working properly for every vehicle, I am not sure how difficult it is on an automatic.

[PaleMelanesian]

In almost everything, you have to ask yourself, "who is this for?". It's almost never for you. It's just that sometimes your interests and theirs are aligned. Higher mpg? Better for them because of CAFE, but only as long as it actually shows up on the tests.

Or to put it another way, follow the money. If this thing costs them money, benefits the customer, but doesn't give them any benefit, why would they offer it? Mazda is a business. They would be a poor business if they didn't make this choice.

[nemo]

Originally Posted by UltArc

I don't get why there isn't an option from every manufacturer for this. I imagine the issue is getting it setup and working properly for every vehicle, I am not sure how difficult it is on an automatic.

Don't think the issue is so much getting it to work, as it is acceptance.

While manufactures could offer these as add-on items they prefer to bundle them in some Eco package charging many thousands more. It would be interesting to see what the cost is for the manufactures to add active grill blocks (shutters) and start-stop systems.

[niky]

Originally Posted by euromodder

Nope.
It doesn't really save that much fuel IRL.
It saves a lot on the EU's NEDC though, where vehicles spend a disproportionate amount of time stopped.
That's why it's come about.

In real life traffic, the Mazda6 onboards claim 3-5 mpg better with the system on versus off. Of course, even with Mazda's i-Stop turned off, the i-ELoop capacitor system still takes some load off the alternator, so it's still not apples to apples.

What I think is clever with Mazda's system is the way it stops the engine with a single cylinder primed to fire. The restarts are eerily seamless for a car without a hybrid assist/starter motor. If all motors could do that, imagine how much we'd save from not having to "crank" the motor in the morning!

The limiting factor in real-world usage is the capacitor bank only stores enough charge to run the AC for two or three minutes. After that's used up, the car has to turn on to run the AC. Haven't tried seeing how long the capacitors can run the car with the AC and stereo off, though. Should be a pretty long time. Still... short stints in traffic... thirty minutes or so (assuming you have a clear run to charge up before you get stuck), the difference is big. If you're sitting in gridlock from the time you turn the engine on till the time you park, not so much.

[roosterk0031]

Be cool if they made the Malibu shut down when coasting, I'm sure the tranny still unlocks when coasting in OD like most GMs, instead of just unlocking the tranny shut down the engine too. I think the last Cobalt auto's could be flat towed so tranny should be or could be OK with it. Probably wouldn't show up the test either, but real world would get to the upper 40's easy with my commute.

[cptsideways]

This is all very well, but here in Europe they massage the figures somewhat based on start stop in the test cycle.

Here in Europe the whole average published figures are increased, which means if you buy a 50mpg car & never drive in the city you will get nothing like the published figures, they are typically 20%-25% off reality.

[cptsideways]

Any questions on Skyactive Mazda's I'm your man, just spent the past few months launching the new Mazda6

Have a 60mpg Mazda6 2.2 175ps Diesel, mega thing for blasting over the Scottish back roads
[/URL]

[Allch Chcar]

Mazda's Eloop only shows 1MPG increase on the EPA cycle. They are bundling it into the tech package for the highest trim on models.

BTW, it's called Skyactiv.

[niky]

Potatoe, Potato.

Wish we'd get the diesels... still have to wait and see if Mazda finally gets a programming fix for the oiling problems people are seeing elsewhere... but I do believe it's only a matter of time.

As rooster notes about the Malibu, the SkyActiv system would also be so much better if the engine could go off while coasting. Could be another 1-2 mpg EPA from that. Plus you need to fulfill a very strict set of conditions for the motor to turn off at a stop. Any steering angle (waiting at a ramp, or stopped in the turning lane) and the motor won't go off.

If Mazda releases a SkyActiv system with a kill switch, or if someone hacks it so that you can use the start-button to toggle i-Stop, it'd be as perfect as an ICE-only system gets.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by UltArc

I don't get why there isn't an option from every manufacturer for this. I imagine the issue is getting it setup and working properly for every vehicle, I am not sure how difficult it is on an automatic.

Stop/start works just as well with an automatic.
Just a question of wether the manufacturer wants it to work ...


I'm using Stop/start, but it's annoying at times - sometimes the engine is only off for a very short period.
It's anybody's guess how long the starters are going to last....