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Old 06-10-2020, 10:46 AM   #1 (permalink)
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McLAREN F1 and lift

A couple weeks ago I caught some flak for comments I made about this car. I found the source for the information:
' BIG MAC SPECIAL', by Sam Smith, ROAD & TRACK, October 2019, pgs 74-88.
The article is about the 2019 McLAREN Senna and McLAREN F1 GTR.
* McLAREN built 107 F1 road cars, and 28 F1 GTR dedicated race cars.
* British racing driver, Ray Bellm competed at the 24-Hours of Le Mans nine times.
* Bellm drove the McLAREN F1 GTR there three times.
* Bellm has owned six F1s.
* In the article, Bellm commented that:
- the F1 lacked driver aids of any kind ( page 76)
- the F1 GTR offered ' no real downforce' (page 78
- the F1 GTR ' It's satisfyingly demanding if you know what you're doing. Frighteningly demanding if you don't.' ( page 78)
- the first GTRs had problems............. The car porpoised at speed and tracked a bit............. People don't realize this, but at Le Mans in ' 95, the car... actually had lift at speed. It was the most frightening car to drive in the wet, no grip. Look at pictures, when XP5 did its high-speed run. Look how high it is off the ground! ( page 83).

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Old 06-10-2020, 11:00 AM   #2 (permalink)
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"At 155 mph, the Senna generates a combined 1,764 pounds of downforce (59 percent of the car's static weight) from both its rear wing and the active front elements that balance it."
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2019...t-worthy-name/



EDIT: this post not meant as a contradiction of the OP. Just amplification with a pic, article, and the quote about how they adapted to the lift the body produced.
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Old 06-10-2020, 02:46 PM   #3 (permalink)
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contradiction

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Originally Posted by California98Civic View Post
"At 155 mph, the Senna generates a combined 1,764 pounds of downforce (59 percent of the car's static weight) from both its rear wing and the active front elements that balance it."
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2019...t-worthy-name/



EDIT: this post not meant as a contradiction of the OP. Just amplification with a pic, article, and the quote about how they adapted to the lift the body produced.
No contradiction. The issue was with the 1995 F1, which had no downforce.
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Old 06-10-2020, 06:44 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
A couple weeks ago I caught some flak for comments I made about this car. I found the source for the information:
' BIG MAC SPECIAL', by Sam Smith, ROAD & TRACK, October 2019, pgs 74-88.
The article is about the 2019 McLAREN Senna and McLAREN F1 GTR.
* McLAREN built 107 F1 road cars, and 28 F1 GTR dedicated race cars.
* British racing driver, Ray Bellm competed at the 24-Hours of Le Mans nine times.
* Bellm drove the McLAREN F1 GTR there three times.
* Bellm has owned six F1s.
* In the article, Bellm commented that:
- the F1 lacked driver aids of any kind ( page 76)
- the F1 GTR offered ' no real downforce' (page 78
- the F1 GTR ' It's satisfyingly demanding if you know what you're doing. Frighteningly demanding if you don't.' ( page 78)
- the first GTRs had problems............. The car porpoised at speed and tracked a bit............. People don't realize this, but at Le Mans in ' 95, the car... actually had lift at speed. It was the most frightening car to drive in the wet, no grip. Look at pictures, when XP5 did its high-speed run. Look how high it is off the ground! ( page 83).
Huh? All your quotes are about the GTR race cars, not the road cars which were the subject of the discussion!

This is the sort of misquoting you do so often - I am not sure if you do it deliberately or just through fuzzy thinking.
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Old 06-11-2020, 03:44 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Read the original press release for the road car here.

An excerpt:

A complex three-part rear diffuser beneath the F1ís tail incorporates a central single surface and two reflex shapes each side generate sufficient downforce to overcome the carís natural aerodynamic lift.

But hell, what would McLaren know? After all, they also say:

While most existing production cars are tested in fixed-floor tunnels in which the test-carís wheels are stationary, every Formula 1 racing car designer knows that modern moving-ground wind tunnels provide the only accurate representation of actual-car aerodynamic behaviour.

...and everyone knows from what 'Aerohead' writes here that there's no need for moving ground wind tunnels!

Again, what would McLaren know?

My references say 136kg downforce at 240 km/h.

(But for people who actually want to learn something, the most interesting thing I found when revisiting the car's aero details is the active control of the location of the centre of pressure.)
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Old 06-12-2020, 12:01 PM   #6 (permalink)
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misquoting

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Originally Posted by JulianEdgar View Post
Huh? All your quotes are about the GTR race cars, not the road cars which were the subject of the discussion!

This is the sort of misquoting you do so often - I am not sure if you do it deliberately or just through fuzzy thinking.
I'm pretty certain that I provided the proper caveat for the information.
No F1 road cars ever competed at Le Mans. Only F1 GTRs, especially modified. The article explains it all.
What happens with me is, that a member will make a comment about a topic and I'll volunteer data from memory as best I can,as I do not have internet at home, and cannot bring my library to town.
When I read, I'm not thinking that one day, I'll have cause for total recall. And as I mentioned in the original post, my library is an accumulation of material collected since 1974. At around 60-linear feet of material, navigating it to capture a single bit of information is a bit of a challenge.
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Old 06-12-2020, 07:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
At around 60-linear feet of material, navigating it to capture a single bit of information is a bit of a challenge.
Not an issue most of us have.

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