Million mile car brainstorming (will explain how it's MPG related)

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by tjbell

premium gas is recommended for my car and many do not use premium when it is actually is recommended resulting in possible engine problems.

Premium (92 PON) is recommended for my car as well, but I had been using regular (87 PON) for the past 3 years with no ill effects so far. The manual states that 87 is the lowest octane I can run without causing engine damage, so I assume the timing is altered to accept the lower octane fuel.

However, I'm currently running premium just to see if I notice an increase in fuel economy. So far I am, but it's also my first warm weather with a partial grill block installed, so the jury is still out on if premium makes a difference. I'll switch back to regular at some point and compare.

as far as oil i am aware you can go near 10,000 on mobil one oil per change, i know used oil analysis shows 3,000 is nothing for mobil one. I am anal about 3,000 mile intervals. just the way i have always done it and how my father did it too. i can get synthetic oil for 4$ a quart for castrol 5w-30 synthetic. guess what, my car needs 0w-40 which at my cost is 7.65. it costs me 38.71$ for piece of mind. worth it to me

I go 12,000 miles on Mobil 1 and a regular Purolator filter. The Blackstone reports have been good every year so far. I'd bet conventional cheap oil would do similarly well, but I haven't worked up the guts to try it yet.

3000 mi change intervals is excessive in all but the most severe of driving conditions. The dad or grandpa argument is an appeal to authority, and is meaningless to the facts of the matter.

Originally Posted by freebeard

I change my oil based on its color and opacity, not miles driven. Is that wrong?

I second the opinion of SoD. Color cannot be used to determine anything relevant (viscosity, acidity, contamination, TBN, etc) to oil. The oil in my diesel truck turns opaque almost immediately after a fresh change, but it continues to lubricate properly long after it has turned black.

[freebeard]

Freebeard, I would say "yes, that's wrong". Oil can change color very very quickly, especially in cars that run hot or are hard on their oils. (Like turbocharged cars, or *ahem* air-cooled ones.)

I second the opinion of SoD. Color cannot be used to determine anything relevant (viscosity, acidity, contamination, TBN, etc) to oil. The oil in my diesel truck turns opaque almost immediately after a fresh change, but it continues to lubricate properly long after it has turned black.

Oh noes, people are calling me wrong on Internet! Actually that's why I hang around here.

Here's what I'll say in my defense: The difference between adding a quart and complete oil change is 2 quarts, so why not? ...and instead of a filter I have a screen. So now I'm off to Google to see how the opacity can change, but nothing else.

Originally Posted by Sean.Heihn

Aren't Land Rovers unreliable? I remember reading somewhere one year they were rated the lowest quality car brand sold in the US.

That's why I said "Start with a Land Rover for a base vehicle..." Hmm, TDI or small block Chevy and Ford 9" rear end? I thought I'd get more reaction to 'Studebaker Avanti'.

[War_Wagon]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I haven't either and I've been messing with this stuff for decades. So it's "cheap insurance".. against what? It's an imaginary issue, like flag burning.

Maybe I wasn't clear, sorry. I have seen oil go south due to other issues, but not a filter. Cutting a filter open can give you a heads up on something that is about to fail (under extreme use, as in racing. I have seen pieces of valve spring in a filter. At that point, you shouldn't make another pass down the track.) But under normal use, it's a waste of effort. As for the cheap insurance, if synthetic oil is $6 a liter, and I need 4.5 of them, and the filter is $4, and I only need one of them, then for $4 I will just change the filter every 3000 miles. It may not be needed, but if I know the synthetic oil has the ability to last me a long time, and that the best way to keep it working for me is to keep it clean, then in my opinion I will do my best to keep it clean. If something goes wrong internally in the engine and it lets coolant into the oil or whatever, then either way you are screwed, that oil is a waste. You can pay $4 for a filter, or $15. It's up to you. But if you buy a quality synthetic oil , then to me I will protect that investment on the pricey oil with a cheap filter change. I'm sure you could go to then end of the synthetic oil's "recommended" life span on a single filter. But for $4 I will change it once in a while. Heck, I saw a Chrysler Town & Country van that had 41k KMs (25k miles) on it, that had the original filter from the factory, and original oil from the factory in it. I only remember it because I was the guy that had to put a new engine in it! Seized solid, it got towed in. So I have no doubt that oil can go a lot further than it should. But for $4 I will change the filter once in a while.

[Frank Lee]

Traumatized by a head gasket before? I think you'll know if one fails waaay before you see evidence of it in an oil filter.

Speaking of clean oil, where does all this "dirt" come from? The crankcase is pretty much sealed from the elements unless you habitually drive around with no oil fill cap and no air filter. Blowby was a big issue on old carb'd stuff where the chokes often malfunctioned and ran too rich, flooding and washing lube off the mushy soft, out of round, loosey goosey cylinders of the day. Not so much anymore.

[freebeard]

...and washing lube off the mushy soft, out of round, loosey goosey cylinders of the day

How did we ever get along?

[Frank Lee]

At about 60,000 miles between replacements.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

My '94 F150 still has the factory brakes, except for some of the hard brake lines. Use them sparingly and they last forever.

I suppose it depends on how you drive, but this strikes me as bad advice. My Fit has 91K miles and the original brakes all around - including the front pads. I'm changing pads and rotors, and having the brake system flushed with fresh fluid. Even though all of those parts would still pass PA state inspection, I think it's time.

Why do I think it's time? I commute in the car, on high speed freeways, surrounded by 60-ton semis and lunatics in Lexuses who for some reason think that cutting in front of me will get them to work sooner (what is so important about getting to work sooner anyway?). I've needed those brakes in the past; rarely, but when I needed them I needed them. A car can't last a million miles if it's all squished up. Neither can I for that matter!

So on go the new parts. Necessary or just feel-good, it won't make no never mind to me so long as that pedal on the floor does its duty the next time I find myself needing to stab it.

(Now that I think about this a bit more, a Honda Fit might make a fine candidate for a million mile car. Easy on gas, easy on consumables, skillions sold worldwide, mad crazy mod culture yo (which translates to all sorts of upgraded parts availability), and the engine is being used for a spec formula car series so there are all kinds of beefed up internals available. Hmmmm.)

[Sven7]

A lot of talk about oil here, and not much about anything else. Just change it at the manufacturer's recommended interval. I use Valvoline Max-Life 5W-30 although am not sure it is any better than normal oil for high mileage engines. Wix or NAPA Gold filters...

As far as vehicle selection, I would be wary about composite bodied cars. As Saab Sonett owners will tell you, although the body may look clean, the frame is still just as exposed as every other car on the road. You want to have the whole car protected, not just what's visible.

Apparently Porsche galvanized their car bodies too, but I would not recommend a Porsche in this challenge.

Perhaps a Volkswagen diesel would do. Sure, VW's have their issues but by doing your own work and getting a car that was really taken care of, you can easily get over 300,000 miles while doing over 50 mpg. A Golf or Jetta will have very good aftermarket support as well.

I would go for a MK4 VW TDI or a 6th gen Honda Civic. For the Civic you'd want to get a clean car from a non-salt state, with an impeccable service record. Get the entire thing professionally undercoated as 2000neon has done. From there you can replace things as they break and even have a "new" engine built for when, after a few hundred thousand miles, your original one blows up. Parts are cheap.

Do think about aero-mods and 5th gear swaps, too. With a boat tail you can actually feel how little throttle you need to use compared with stock. Of course that's going to be better for the engine! I imagine coasting in neutral will be, too. If you get an 88-00 Honda be very nice to the transmission because they don't like roughhousing.

[Sven7]

Another thought would be a Volvo 240 series. It may not be the most economical for long trips, but the enthusiast support you get is extraordinary for DIY frugality. A friend of mine has a 244 Turbo and I am always amazed about the things he finds on turbobricks.com. People find the most inexpensive ways to fix those cars, and since they are simple RWD stone blocks of cars with their roots in late 60's technology, you know they're built robustly and plentiful enough to find a few parts cars.

The main issue is that what I consider the "golden age" of automobiles, the late 80's and early 90's, is already over 20 years ago. Many cars from that era are nearing the end of their useful lives. The best generations of Civics are rusting out and the Mk2/Mk3 VW diesels are beat to hell. However, if you can find a late model 240 with a great maintenance history, it still may be worth a look.

[Frank Lee]

I suppose it depends on how you drive, but this strikes me as bad advice. My Fit has 91K miles and the original brakes all around - including the front pads. I'm changing pads and rotors, and having the brake system flushed with fresh fluid. Even though all of those parts would still pass PA state inspection, I think it's time.

Sure, replace perfectly good parts for no other reason than paranoia. Can't argue with that.

The parts are either good or they ain't.