Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-08-2014, 01:26 PM   #11 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 12,358
Thanks: 19,873
Thanked 6,200 Times in 3,825 Posts
Ram-air aspirated low drag mirrors,SAE R&D

Here is an interesting CFD and wind tunnel study of 'passive jet' mirrors.
Results are a bit quirky,and some off-car testing (which is a no-no) but interesting!http://www6.miami.edu/acfdlab/public...14-01-0584.pdf

__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
chumly (12-15-2014), eMax (01-15-2015), freebeard (12-09-2014), Grim (12-29-2014)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 12-08-2014, 02:41 PM   #12 (permalink)
herp derp Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 1,046

Saturn-sold - '99 saturn sc1
Team Saturn
90 day: 28.28 mpg (US)

Yukon - '03 GMC Yukon Denali
90 day: 13.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 43
Thanked 328 Times in 232 Posts
Sweet
*starts holding up various sizes of hole saws to side mirror*
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 11:14 PM   #13 (permalink)
Hydrogen > EV
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NW Ohio, United States
Posts: 2,017

Snow White and the 6.2 Dwarfs - '11 Chevrolet Corvette LT2
Last 3: 26.46 mpg (US)

Silver Flea - '05 Honda Insight
90 day: 58.96 mpg (US)
Thanks: 981
Thanked 383 Times in 279 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baltothewolf View Post
Is it illegal to use cameras in place of sideview mirrors?
Law section
__________________





Best Tanks:
Mustang - 54.83 mpg (US) at the Green Grand Prix
Insight - 82.91966 mpg (US) over 818.5 miles.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to UltArc For This Useful Post:
mikeyjd (01-15-2015)
Old 12-09-2014, 12:19 AM   #14 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 18,801
Thanks: 5,227
Thanked 6,199 Times in 4,967 Posts
Thanks,aerohead, that's awesome.

The MacLaren mirror reminded me of the funnels on the decks of old steamships.

So the 39% improvement was from the simulation? Maybe that would be supported or improved with some fine-scale refinement:



I'm wondering about a blown or molded clear plastic cap on a 3" peep mirror. It needs more testing in the second configuration.

Edit: Nope, I checked. The swan-necked swivel mount would have to go. An annular ring might replace it, swiveling in a fixed mount.

Last edited by freebeard; 12-09-2014 at 12:30 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2014, 12:15 PM   #15 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,880

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,395
Thanked 2,896 Times in 1,817 Posts
The best possible solution I can think of for an optical mirror would be to have a "half teardrop" blister in the side window, that lets the mirror be positioned out beyond the side of the car, and has a tapered form behind the mirror that allows smooth attached air flow.

This kinda' messes up an chances of having (much?) of the side window be operable, though.
__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2014, 03:05 PM   #16 (permalink)
Mechanical engineer
 
Vekke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kitee (Finland)
Posts: 1,055

Siitin - '98 Seat Cordoba Vario
90 day: 58.56 mpg (US)

VW Lupo 3L --> 2L - '00 VolksWagen Lupo 3L
Diesel
90 day: 104.94 mpg (US)

A8 luxury fuel sipper - '97 Audi A8 1.2 TDI 6 speed manual
90 day: 64.64 mpg (US)

Audi A4B6 Avant Niistäjä - '02 Audi A4b6 1.9tdi 96kW 3L
90 day: 54.57 mpg (US)

Tourekki - '04 VW Touareg 2.5TDI R5 6 speed manual
90 day: 32.98 mpg (US)

A2 1.4TDI - '03 Audi A2 1.4 TDI
90 day: 45.68 mpg (US)

A2 1.4 LPG - '02 Audi A2 1.4 (75hp)
90 day: 28.54 mpg (US)
Thanks: 211
Thanked 566 Times in 258 Posts
You mean like this?.



My mirror was also wented to driver to get cool air.
__________________


https://www.linkedin.com/in/vesatiainen/

Vesa Tiainen innovation engineer and automotive enthusiast
  Reply With Quote
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to Vekke For This Useful Post:
aerohead (12-09-2014), Cd (12-23-2014), dirtydave (12-09-2014), mikeyjd (01-15-2015), NeilBlanchard (12-10-2014), NickelB NL (01-16-2015), niky (12-09-2014), redpoint5 (12-23-2014), serialk11r (12-10-2014), Smokeduv (12-09-2014), some_other_dave (12-09-2014), Xist (01-16-2015)
Old 12-09-2014, 04:01 PM   #17 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 12,358
Thanks: 19,873
Thanked 6,200 Times in 3,825 Posts
improvement

Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Thanks,aerohead, that's awesome.

The MacLaren mirror reminded me of the funnels on the decks of old steamships.

So the 39% improvement was from the simulation? Maybe that would be supported or improved with some fine-scale refinement:



I'm wondering about a blown or molded clear plastic cap on a 3" peep mirror. It needs more testing in the second configuration.

Edit: Nope, I checked. The swan-necked swivel mount would have to go. An annular ring might replace it, swiveling in a fixed mount.
*The wind tunnel numbers did not correlate at all with the CFD results.
*The difference in drag between CFD and wind tunnel did fit.
*One observation:the body of the mirror is investigated without its attachment structure.
*The second observation:The mirror is investigated divorced from the host vehicle and no 'interference drag' investigation is presented.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*For us,only meaningful data would have been provided if all testing were done with the mirror/car combination.
*We're left to speculate on what might happen when the passive-jet mirror is 'ON' the car.
*Also,since the jet is annular,the mirror mount cannot intrude within the mirrors main body,otherwise it corrupts the internal flow.Any adjusting mechanism,or turn signal electricals would not be permitted within the cavity.
*And since the mirror WILL be mounted 'somehow' to the car,the mount itself will affect the jet behind it.
*This being the case,the internal ducting and flow may need to be asymmetrical and 'tuned' such that the emerging jet functions as in the isolated flow study.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I really like what they've done,but another,deeper investigation needs to be made,investigating the technology as an aerodynamic 'system' of mirror and host vehicle together.
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
NickelB NL (01-16-2015), some_other_dave (12-09-2014), UltArc (12-10-2014)
Old 12-09-2014, 04:11 PM   #18 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 12,358
Thanks: 19,873
Thanked 6,200 Times in 3,825 Posts
one Porsche solution

The full-race version of the 911 GT moved the mirrors way ahead of the A-pillars to get them into slower air,and they encased them in long,higher fineness ratio housings,kinda like Mair's wind tunnel model.These mirrors might have something on the order of Cd 0.20,excluding the mounting struts.
http://www.porsche-mania.com/wp-cont...he-911-GT1.jpg
Here is Mair's 'template' with the cylindrical elongation removed
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/

Last edited by aerohead; 12-09-2014 at 04:18 PM.. Reason: add Mair
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2014, 09:44 PM   #19 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Mexico
Posts: 56

puntazo - '08 Fiat Grande Punto Sport T-Jet
Sports Cars
90 day: 32.94 mpg (US)

Pachanga ST - '14 Ford Fiesta ST ST3
Sports Cars
90 day: 28.59 mpg (US)
Thanks: 18
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
I know it's not the right thing to do, but, can you use cameras on the sides, with a very slim case, but with a double-sided mirror so the camera is behind it? That way you can comply with the regulations and have a very slim sidemirror, as you will have camera displays on board
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2014, 07:57 AM   #20 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,880

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,395
Thanked 2,896 Times in 1,817 Posts
The SIM-LEI used a minimized optical mirror and a camera:


__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to NeilBlanchard For This Useful Post:
aerohead (12-10-2014)
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com