Molded fiberglass: eco friendly campers

[KamperBob]

Rather than overload this thread, http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post178874, I thought I'd answer here slowmover's questions about my 19' Scamp fifth wheel camper trailer.

Originally Posted by slowmover

I get anywhere from 15 to 18 mpg towing my 19' Scamp fifth wheel with a 4.7L 4WD Tundra

I'd enjoy seeing some interior shots of that. That's a cool rig (from a guy who really dislikes 5'ers).

Thanks.

More pix are available here.
Scamp 5th Wheel

Originally Posted by slowmover

Have you ever calculated storage space (cubic foot enclosed storage of cabinets/closets)?

No. It varies a lot with layout. The bathroom need not have a shower or toilet so it could be a big closet or pantry. Or it could just be more counter, base and overhead cabinets. Many floor plans to permute.

Originally Posted by slowmover

Have seen CASITA and SCAMP and some other "oddballs" but not ever heard about trade-offs (am familiar with aluminum trailer so-called "deficiencies" [primarily psychological IMO]) in "living".

I looked at the company website, but have trouble believing any of them in re weight, so, as a "hypermiler" I figure you have a short stack of weight scale tickets:

What is dry weight as well as GVWR?

What is the GCW on that rig as pictured?

Pin weight?

How does it do on a scale reading per axle?

Max wet weight is a good question. The axle is 3500# and that's all the sticker rates. I treat that number as the GVW and take my tongue weight out of that. As pictured above my scale weight is 2700 axle and 700 pin, including a 3kW generator front and center. I know others run as much as 3800# total with about 15% tongue weight.

This is what I call the micro 5er market. Not much competition. One axle only. Small truck friendly. My original tug was a 3.4L Tacoma. One guy actually pulls his with a 2.3L Ranger. The smallest conventional hitch models are compact car friendly.

Originally Posted by slowmover

Is the roof a solid cap, or a multi-piece "rubber roof"?

The shell is two pieces seamed at the belly band. It is possible to have leaks but not typical. Something has to be wrong (damage) and neglected long enough for it to become a problem.

Originally Posted by slowmover

What are fresh and waste water capacities?

What is your impression of how long they last (time and miles)?

The one above is a 1991 model. I've just had it a few years, and did some restoration, but mostly remodeling to suit our whims. Full specs are best left to company web sites I think. I'm sort of obsessed with these Scamps but I'm fond of sibling brands and distant cousins, of which there have been many over the years. Some companies are still in business. Some brands are long extinct. Here's a link center for more information.
Egg Central

It's not uncommon to find 30-some year old units still going strong. It takes some care and feeding, like anything else really. Here's a 1988 model I started restoring (before deciding to move cross country).
Scamp 5th Wheel

Sure, the ad link is shameless self promotion. But that page also includes some of the capacities.

I'm curious to see where this thread might go. These campers are pretty smart on a number of levels compared to many alternatives. They are not for everyone, I know. But I feel they deserve some attention in their own light.

Cheers
KB

[slowmover]

Thank you, KamperBob for taking the time to start this thread to answer my off-topic questions. I was having a hard time reconciling the published weight figures with the apparent size of your 5'er. We understand that weight is but one criterion for assessing potential mpg (shape/design are reaaallly big), so my questions were more a matter of context for "Improving RV mileage" questions.

As regards curiosity as to how this thread will go, then, the next obvious (to me) question is how many it sleeps (or, "might"), and what your experience has been with more than two people over, say, a two-week period. Any "boondocking" with 2+ for that period? (Being, camping without utilities hooked to unit).

Lightweight, aero, and good road numbers are one thing, but an RV still has to meet family needs for many. That the website says "Sleeps 6" is subject to interpretation. Six fat boys probably ain't gonna be happening.

Same with gear: is there a point of time considered, or seasons, where personal gear is just going to take up too much space? (One reason I find a pickup with bed topper so handy). Granted, it isn't a rig where one takes along every sundry item, so, have at it: # persons w/gear for about how long? What would be "reasonable" given your experience thus far, and where does a permanently gear-laden pickup start to really hurt mpg?

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[KamperBob]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Thank you, KamperBob for taking the time to start this thread to answer my off-topic questions. I was having a hard time reconciling the published weight figures with the apparent size of your 5'er. We understand that weight is but one criterion for assessing potential mpg (shape/design are reaaallly big), so my questions were more a matter of context for "Improving RV mileage" questions.

You are very welcome, and sorry I missed your context setting in the other thread.

Originally Posted by slowmover

As regards curiosity as to how this thread will go, then, the next obvious (to me) question is how many it sleeps (or, "might"), and what your experience has been with more than two people over, say, a two-week period. Any "boondocking" with 2+ for that period? (Being, camping without utilities hooked to unit).

Lightweight, aero, and good road numbers are one thing, but an RV still has to meet family needs for many. That the website says "Sleeps 6" is subject to interpretation. Six fat boys probably ain't gonna be happening.

I suppose a family of 6 people might sleep in the base model with loft, bunks and dinette layout. I traded the front bunks for storage and the queen mattress for full plus elbow room so more comfortable for the two of us. Now it only sleeps 4+ including the front seat which doubles as a dog bed. LOL

Originally Posted by slowmover

Same with gear: is there a point of time considered, or seasons, where personal gear is just going to take up too much space? (One reason I find a pickup with bed topper so handy). Granted, it isn't a rig where one takes along every sundry item, so, have at it: # persons w/gear for about how long? What would be "reasonable" given your experience thus far, and where does a permanently gear-laden pickup start to really hurt mpg?

RVer's rule #1: everything has at least two uses; else leave it home. Most of us have to learn to fight that nature abhors a vacuum. The bigger the house, car, RV or purse, the more stuff it seems to accumulate. We enjoy gatherings to meet others who are fun, clever, and helpful. Often frugal too. So many budgets to consider: purchase price, operating costs, weight margins, cargo space, vacation time, amp hours, sodium, beer, marshmallows, and internet access.

Cheers
KB

[slowmover]

(I didn't actually state the questions as being about context, thus your action to start the thread was ideal. Really. Had I gone any farther out it would have broken that tree branch right off).


I suppose a family of 6 people might sleep in the base model with loft, bunks and dinette layout. I traded the front bunks for storage and the queen mattress for full plus elbow room so more comfortable for the two of us. Now it only sleeps 4+ including the front seat which doubles as a dog bed.


Okay, that makes sense. Won't be whole lotta room, but the point of using one for camping is to be outside unless bad weather or illness kicks us back inside. I can see four-with-a-maybe-stretch-to-six as being a reasonable point of departure for comparison to another RV type. Hard shell, AC, and a durable roof.


These campers are pretty smart on a number of levels compared to many alternatives. They are not for everyone, I know. But I feel they deserve some attention in their own light.

Couldn't agree more. The bigger is better philosophy is okay for a man full-time on the road for a living (job site to job site) where the unit sits most of the time. But it doesn't make so much sense for low initial cost, low lifetime cost (if it can be taken to 20-years), and low operating cost for a family. Plus, this rig is small enough to have some better options for storage between trips than those of us with 30' plus rigs. Not to mention the sheer variety of tow vehicles for a conventional trailer of this type.

The only "real" trade-off is in battery amp-hours, fresh water capacity, propane capacity, and holding tank capacity in comparison to a larger rig.

My ideal, probably not to be realized, is to be fully self-sufficient for two weeks in any weather. The ideal RV is one that will somehow get me closer to that (be it an above 20F winter, or not much more than 100F summer), with some solar to charge batteries and decent other energy and clean/dirty water capacities.

I'd like to have an on-board generator for instance, where that and the water heater, oven/stove and refrigerator could run off diesel (as does my truck) as is seen in sailboats. (Except reefer, I don't know about that). Point is to eliminate propane from the equation. Single fuel source for tow vehicle and trailer. And the point about two-week self sufficiency is to be able to go with the flow in the event of a hurricane (awful) to downed power lines for days and days while at home (have to make life bearable on the Texas Gulf Coast. Not abandon my house, and not to enrich price-gouging hotel owners).

I was laughing at a story earlier today about a lady RV'er pulling up to a Wal-Mart to run a 5-gl jug back and forth to her tank from a water vending machine as she moved from one boondocking site to another. Hadn't thought about doing that partly because the tank on mine is so big. On the other hand . . . necessity being the mother of invention, (and carrying forward that idea of everything needing double use [you married? . . I'm having a hard time with the "cut the handle off the toothbrush" philosophy] making every square inch count ALSO makes for easier living. Nothing gets lost. Or spends years bouncing around the back of a cupboard just in case. . it's surprising what can be left behind. So going to a water vending machine to avoid gyp water makes perfect sense. I wouldn't mind paying for it then.

My lower overall costs can also finance some occasional better food or, (ha!) water.

Maybe I missed it in your links or above: Have you some certified scale tickets to show truck/trailer weight separately and together? That would be useful to others having a look at your rig. I saw some weights, and I know I'm being a booger-bear about it, but there's just nothing like those three-axle readouts -- and another for the tow vehicle by itself --to get a real sense of what we're up against. Maybe someday, huh? Not too likely to run into another guy as well-versed in these as you are.

Also, I see that the SCAMP 5'er is supposed to have torsion axles. Not having familiarity with this brand (but do with the type) does the factory equip them with shock absorbers? (Some brands do not according to design). I know that some brands/designs of these axles don't take well to sitting or to long years: they have to be replaced at some point. Is there consensus among owners on when to replace?

P.S. You indicate having re-modeled. Looks to me as nice as factory where that is supposed to indicate clean, well-thought out, and nicely finished. I really enjoy trailers where the owner gets it just right.


.

[KamperBob]

Slowmover, the weights I reported earlier were computed from scale readings: combo minus truck. At that time the Tacoma was the tug, and all axles had margin to spare. That was fully provisioned "wet" weight. I don't take all my cast iron cookware on the road but it was loaded with food, water, clothes, dishes, etc.

I did correct my numbers to include the generator as show in that pic. The tongue weight was 550# without the generator. I have not scaled the Tundra yet, and the motorcycle adds another variable that most folks probably would never encounter. Different trucks have different base weight and margins so trailer numbers alone seem better focus for this discussion. Everyone needs to do their own homework anyway.

The battery bank is 200-Ah which can support the Danfoss compressor fridge for several days. No solar panels yet but eventually. Meanwhile, the generator keeps the batteries topped when anchored.

The 20-gal fresh tank might last a week if we're frugal. I modified the shower head for example. I stow a pair of 6-gal jugs to schlep water to the trailer if needed. The twin 20# LP tanks are BBQ exchangees to which I am not particularly attached. So I don't have to tow the RV to a qualified station. The broader theme is strategy for flexibility and options. The bike can mule a surprising amount and type of provisions (gas, LP, water, food, whatever) and at 90+ mpg it's awesome for errands.

The trailer axle is torsion. The internal rubber is self damping. Folks argue about whether they should be stored weight off or not. The jury is still out on that. Some folks have 30+ year old axles that maybe sag but seem to work fine. On this 1988 resto project I'm selling (Scamp 5th Wheel) I converted it to leaf springs so the trailer can be easily matched to a range of different pickup bed heights. (The old Dexter TorFlex went on CraigsList quickly with takers racing each other to get it - still good.)

Thanks for the kind words about my remodeling work. It's fun during and rewarding long after. These projects often provide a great excuse to learn a skill, or get tools.

Cheers
KB

[slowmover]

The bike can mule a surprising amount and type of provisions (gas, LP, water, food, whatever) and at 90+ mpg it's awesome for errands.

Yup . . buddy of mine came into a nice pair of HONDA Trail 90's. Got me to thinking about that more. Been reading about 2-strokes on bicycles as well.

Slowmover, the weights I reported earlier were computed from scale readings: combo minus truck

Sorry, my eyes must be skipping repeatedly . . so

2,700-lbs on Axle
700-lbs on Pin

in a recent configuration. I'd make fun of being lazy eyed but it'd irk someone . . so just call me slow. And irksome.

Thanks

.

[slowmover]

Warrior Fifth Wheel Toyhauler

KamperBob's gittin' a new one. Load per wheel is now greater than his entire last trailer. So he loaded it in the back for the short trips.

[KamperBob]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Warrior Fifth Wheel Toyhauler

KamperBob's gittin' a new one. Load per wheel is now greater than his entire last trailer. So he loaded it in the back for the short trips.

I guess that's how the other half lives.



I can hear those wheels scrubbing around corners just looking at the pixels! LOL

[slowmover]

Pretty sure that's a photoshop. The underside looks a bit "funny" and you'd need 4-6 roof airs to keep it cool.

But that company makes monster 3-axle rigs that don't look all that much shorter. Really do need an MDT or HDT to haul them.

So, how's it working out, your backing your current truck and trailer into the toyhauler space, ha!

[Cd]

KamperBob, I'm sure this has been asked before, but why mount the motorcycle at the very front of the truck instead of to the back of the trailer ?