Morelli Shape

[NeilBlanchard]

Thanks Patrick -- it looks to be almost 2 feet above the ground?

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Thanks Patrick -- it looks to be almost 2 feet above the ground?

In the back, yes. In the front the ground clearance looks like it's only about 6-8".

[Jim Bullis]

Miket,

The third thing that can provide stabilization after lowering the CG and leaning the vehicle is making the wheel base wider during the turning process.

[Jim Bullis]

Neil,

You seem to misunderstand. Miastrada is not an implementation of the Morelli shape; it is an implementation of the Akron airship shape. It has a slight tweak in reaction to the discussion in Morelli's paper.

For a shape that is not the 'Morelli shape', Morelli provides test data that shows how low a body can be before the road effect becomes strong. I utilize that knowledge to set the road clearance for the Miastrada main body.

I get it that you perceive that there are problems, though it is a little perplexing why you are so sure of what you 'see'. I have the benefit of having ridden down my driveway on a simple implementation of the articulated arrangement; and finding the steering very remarkably stable, even though the front of the vehicle functions a little like a fork lift, gives me a basis for confidence in that arrangement.

Anyway, I need to get over to the Autopia site and give xprize and Argonne heck for the bogus MPGE stuff.

[Jim Bullis]

Neil,

It is entirely conjectural on your part that Miastrada would require 'drive by wire'. It is not at all difficult to arrange mechanical steering linkages, for either the simple four wheeled version or the articulated six wheeled version.

Steering cables, as used in aircraft, might be useful.

[RobertSmalls]

Originally Posted by Jim Bullis

Anyway, I need to get over to the Autopia site and give xprize and Argonne heck for the bogus MPGE stuff.

I'm with you on that one.

While you're at it, you should write these clowns a letter:
Fuel Economy Label | Fuel Economy | US EPA

The new FE window sticker draft includes "Tailpipe CO2 only" and a 33.7KWh/gal "mpge" factor.

[miket]

Gas cars should be rated in miles per gallon and electric in miles per kWH. No one is going to be buying and putting gas in their battery or electricity in their engine.

For the end user mpge is really silly. If a consumer wants to do a cost comparsion between an electric and gas vehicle instead of on from the same family than its still useless because electricty prices vary greatly, I pay twice as much in CT per kwh than most states.

edit: mpge is not based on economics and since it ignores generation efficiency its not base on anything usefull really.

[NeilBlanchard]

Sigh -- ~33kWh of electricity has the same BTU content as a gallon of typical gasoline, so it is a direct comparison of the energy used in the car. Which is very useful information.

Sure electricity has embedded energy -- starting from the source through generation and distribution.

BUT the thing that many people also forget is that gasoline has lots of embedded energy in it -- it does not just materialize out of thin air, either. So, if you add the embedded energy into the electricity, then you must also do the same for the gasoline.

Neil Blanchard Designs: Oil Is Finite, Electricity Is Infinite

Back on topic: the basic issue with the the Miastrada design is, does it actually avoid the problem it is intended to? Or, does it merely separate the two parts of the vehicle, making everything much more complicated, raising the Cg, and increasing the drag, to boot?

You see, a large space above the ground and low Cg are mutually exclusive.

If you raise part of the car high up, but keep part of it low, then you would seem to have negated any possible aerodynamic benefits, since you still have things close to the ground.

[miket]

Double Sigh! It's not usefull since it doesn't accurately compare the direct cost of buying the energy, the environmental cost, security cost the storage cost. Its just a useless marketing gimmick.

edit:The energy used only inside the car doest matter to anyone so why bother converting that? Mpge could have been much more usefull, though because of the apples to bread stick comparisons there would have to be many different Mpge conversions for accuracy in different situations. They basically picked the only conversion no one would care about.

[Frank Lee]

Triple sigh. Costs can't be a primary consideration for this, as they fluctuate wildly based on commodity trader whims.