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Old 01-25-2012, 08:56 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larrybuck View Post
I feel I'm entering a war zone here.

Just had an possible simple solution for side wind issues.

I am serious. This is not a joke. If we are talking about a 1, or 2 wheeled vehicle,
why couldn't we deploy on demand a training wheel opposite side the wind is pushing
from.


We would still be legal (under 4 wheels), and if designed properly, the weight penalty
should not be too high!

Would that not be a huge piece of mind for the operator?
I think it would cause other issues and upset the balance of the cycle. When you are working against a cross-wind you are leaning into the wind. Not sure what adding a wheel on the opposite side would do to your stability as it touched down, but I don't think it would be good.

Maybe someone with more engineering knowledge could explain what would happen.


Jay

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Old 01-25-2012, 09:24 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I was thinking of a control surface, like active suspension, only it is a flap that counteracts crosswinds (like a rudder or something), or something much more complicated integrated into the aerodynamics?

so you are cruising at 60mph, 30mph sidewind hits from the right and the control surface reacts by moving its trailing edge left. not sure about trying to lever the bike level from the tail end though, it might try to swap ends if there isn't some downforce added along with the counteracting force, or if there isn't another control surface at the front, don't really know, but the idea is to add some active "flying" ability to the bike so it can react appropriately.



Assuming of course that crosswind is enough of a concern to merit such measures (not trying to be a solution looking for a problem here). I've never been in an enclosed two wheeler.
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Last edited by dcb; 01-25-2012 at 09:43 AM..
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Old 01-25-2012, 09:49 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Cross wind sensitivity in a purpose built enclosed two wheeler doesn't have to be any worse than a normal naked bike. The bad rap about cross wind performance is coming from DIY aero retro fits that impose a really tall rear fairing behind a stock bike sit up position. Off the shelf 120mpg at 65mph with road manners that are identical to a normal motorcycle would be easy if Honda thought anyone would buy it and could sell brand new for $10,000. $7,000 when production went to 200,000 per year and built next to my bike in Thailand.
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Old 01-27-2012, 02:33 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Right. The whole package needs to be considered with respect to the center of mass. The price of an OEM fairing would vary depending on whether it is a touring style, front/rear separate, or a fully enclosed.
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Old 01-27-2012, 02:41 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Dear dcb, You are onto a potentially useful idea and I have been giving some thought in the same direction. Aircraft use a rudder to adjust to turning and cross winds. A rudder tip turns toward the direction of the wind or current to compensate.
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Old 01-27-2012, 03:13 PM   #16 (permalink)
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On the racetrack kicking free of the bike and sliding to a stop works as long as your leathers hold up and someone else doesn't ride you over. The barriers usually are far enough away you don't have to worry much about hitting anything more substantial than a stack of hay bales. Sure, nobody wants to go through a tumble cycle with 300 lbs of unfriendly metal. The idea is to turn the bike into a protective device without it becoming just a mini cage. There are cars, trees, guardrails, etc that I don't want anyone to hit without as much protection as feasable.

Leg protection - small touring bar structures fore and aft of feet
Head, arms, and chest - front fairing outside hard skin over crushable core, inertial reel lapbelt.
Hip, shoulder, back - side panels and seat back of honeycomb aluminum or foam core laminate; head rest, crushable tailbox.

All this need not interfere with putting a knee down or make a 250cc feel like a truck.
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Old 04-19-2012, 12:22 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I have been following closely the construction of the fairings Alan Smith and Craig Vetter have been building. The aluminum framing looks like it would absorb a good bit of energy in a crash front or rear. I don't think either have mentioned putting the faired bikes on their side while riding. Right now Craig needs a good headlight system for the Helix. A PAR-36 size lamp is the smallest legal headlamp available. The strips of LEDs as marker lights and turn signals looks to make the bike highly visiable. Safe doesn't have to be ugly or boring, just smart.
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:14 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electictracer View Post
Thats what separates us 2 wheelers form the boring box car drivers.
I think some of us would find riding an enclosed bike too much like driving the cage...am i right?
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:30 PM   #19 (permalink)
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This comes to the heart of the mystique of riding a two wheel machine. What are the distinct features that make riding a bike so appealing? Part of it is the delicious feeling of flying so close to the ground. There is a greater sense of experiencing the world around you. That was part of the appeal of driving a car with the top down in the '50s. The vehicle extends and amplifies our powers to move about without interposing itself as a buffer. Our mode of transportation is a personal statement reflecting our aspirations.

It is more than having two wheels or the degree of protection we require that separates a driver from an operator. Even when I drive my econobox Geo Prism 4dr I don't think BORING I think what can I do to get the most of out of this machine? So I saved the rims and tires from the Escort GT and mounted them on this car. I see if I can take my favorite ON ramp just a little bit faster.

Worrying about getting killed takes the joy out of riding for pleasure. We want to build vehicles that perform better in some way. I want to make a car, bicycle, and motorcycle that goes faster, farther, and safer that what is for sale today. It's another way to push the limits. We want to build and ride a motorcycle that is fun to ride and get 500 mpg that is not an accident waiting to happen. We are getting closer and some one may well do it in the next 10 years. Will it be a turbo 50cc or a three cylinder diesel? What is for sure is that more people will want to ride a motorcycle if they believe it safe, economical, and fun. Making motorcycles more visable will make everyone safer and reduce the tension between people using different forms of transportation. Ask your friends how much driving they do alone in a car. Ask them what it would take to get them to use a vehicle that gets more than 100 mpg and is easy to park. Mention that it costs a third of what their car cost new. Now tell them it has crumple zones, seat belts, and an air bag.
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:27 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant-53 View Post
This comes to the heart of the mystique of riding a two wheel machine. What are the distinct features that make riding a bike so appealing? Part of it is the delicious feeling of flying so close to the ground. There is a greater sense of experiencing the world around you. That was part of the appeal of driving a car with the top down in the '50s. The vehicle extends and amplifies our powers to move about without interposing itself as a buffer. Our mode of transportation is a personal statement reflecting our aspirations.
When I ride, I feel like I am part of the landscape, if only for a moment before moving on to the next landscape. In the spring, I enjoy the different smells of flowers and other vegetation. Evenings bring cool pockets of air as I dip into a valley and then warm air as I rise out of it. This is completely lost in a car.

Cages always feel like I'm driving them, but a motorcycle feels like it's part of me; an extension of my own body, almost as if it responds to my thoughts.

Quote:
Worrying about getting killed takes the joy out of riding for pleasure. We want to build vehicles that perform better in some way. I want to make a car, bicycle, and motorcycle that goes faster, farther, and safer that what is for sale today. It's another way to push the limits. We want to build and ride a motorcycle that is fun to ride and get 500 mpg that is not an accident waiting to happen. We are getting closer and some one may well do it in the next 10 years.
I have been rear-ended in a Subaru, and my girlfriend was recently rear-ended in her Pontiac. It seems these sorts of accidents are not uncommon, and very difficult to avoid. Ride long enough, and your chance of being hit by another vehicle approaches 100%. Motorcycles will not be safe from other vehicles until automatic brake assist, lane departure warning, etc become the norm. With ever increasing distractions for drivers, safety is in jeopardy.

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