MTSU Students Retrofit Hub Motors (Converting an Accord into a plug-in Hybrid)

[bschloop]

I like this approach for people who drive in the city a lot. but for me, out in rural America, I have been thinking of something closer to the poulsen system. Electric Cruise Control, you could even use the existing cruise control system to control the speed, so "normal" people would be able to understand it. "turn on the cruise and save fuel".

[Otto]

1. Wouldn't it work even better to make the wheel into the motor? (i.e., put the permanent magnets on the wheel as close to the rim as possible, further from axis of rotation, for more torque.) This would be like those stereo LP record players where the turntable is the motor.

2. Or, with vented disc brakes, to insert the magnets into the slots between inner and outer disc surfaces.

3. Would a pulse width modulator work to control speed and torque? It's on/off timing would control the length of time that electricity goes to the stator windings--longer for acceleration and more briefly for cruise. Would such a pulse width modulator also serve as a cruise control device?

4. How hard to rig it for regenerative braking?

5. How heavy a battery would be needed?

[eco_generator]

Awesome. Anything that would retrofit to old Civic and Camry models would do the most good. Great idea using the relatively unused non-driven "axle" with drum brakes.

[Flakbadger]

If this kit is actually mass-produced, I will buy the s*** out of it... Assuming my car is paid off by then.

[nimblemotors]

If they could sell a complete hybrid conversion that doubles your mpg for $3k, they would have a huge winner. but that is really not possible! the hybrid battery alone in a prius sells for $2500 retail. So a $3k price will end up being more like $8k once it is a product and won't double mpg, maybe increase it 20%, at which point it doesn't become very attractive.

[cfg83]

nimblemotors -

Originally Posted by nimblemotors

If they could sell a complete hybrid conversion that doubles your mpg for $3k, they would have a huge winner. but that is really not possible! the hybrid battery alone in a prius sells for $2500 retail. So a $3k price will end up being more like $8k once it is a product and won't double mpg, maybe increase it 20%, at which point it doesn't become very attractive.

I am guessing that you're right, . However, I think this is another step in the right direction. Maybe someone down the line will leverage this design to make one cheap enough to ju$tify retrofits.

CarloSW2

[nimblemotors]

This approach was a good idea 10 years ago, but today you can buy a used Prius instead!

Today, what is more interesting, is just the hub motor itself to build a fully electric car. If they could sell just the motors at $3k a pair, then they have something, IF it has enough power to run the car, or if four of them are enough. But if it's limited to a specific model (e.g. a Civic), then it isn't going to be so great.

Originally Posted by cfg83

nimblemotors -



I am guessing that you're right, . However, I think this is another step in the right direction. Maybe someone down the line will leverage this design to make one cheap enough to ju$tify retrofits.

CarloSW2

[eco_generator]

Originally Posted by nimblemotors

This approach was a good idea 10 years ago, but today you can buy a used Prius instead!

Today, what is more interesting, is just the hub motor itself to build a fully electric car. If they could sell just the motors at $3k a pair, then they have something, IF it has enough power to run the car, or if four of them are enough. But if it's limited to a specific model (e.g. a Civic), then it isn't going to be so great.

Oof, have you driven a car with 4 drum brakes before?

[cfg83]

nimblemotors -

Originally Posted by nimblemotors

This approach was a good idea 10 years ago, but today you can buy a used Prius instead!

Yes and no. For instance, I was looking at the Prius V as a "wagon" for my wife's business. The problem is that it is still deficient in terms of cargo volume. Probably the only option for us would be a Ford Escape Hybrid SUV, but I will avoid SUVs if I have a choice.

I'm biased towards the concept of retrofit in general. If you look at the overall automobile fleet in the USA, the vast majority is still ICE driven. It would be nice to be able to take the car the "fits" one's needs and be able to improve it's MPG with a retrofit kit. This site is basically a free-retrofit-foundation workshop.

Today, what is more interesting, is just the hub motor itself to build a fully electric car. If they could sell just the motors at $3k a pair, then they have something, IF it has enough power to run the car, or if four of them are enough. But if it's limited to a specific model (e.g. a Civic), then it isn't going to be so great.

Yeah, specific is no good. I wouldn't actually care about a battery pack. If they just had some ultracapacitors to store the energy lost in deceleration, we could get that back when the car started moving again.

More info on the US car fleet and ultracapacitors :

State of the U.S. Motor Vehicle Industry: 2012
http://www2.briefing.com/Marketing/i...ustry-2012.pdf

Ultracapacitor Technologies and Application in Hybrid and Electric Vehicles [eScholarship]

Honda Worldwide | Fuel Cell

CarloSW2

[freebeard]

So I de-lurked, just to post about this. Of course I'm weeks late, I've been spending most of my time in the Aero forum.

So I'll just say nimblemotors is right on one level, but that means you choose your donor platform with care, or take the White Zombie approach--gang 'em together.

And also: Poulsen Hybrid = sheet metal screws in your rocker panel!

The installation that would be of interest to me would be to the air-cooled VW transaxle. It is possible to install inboard disk brakes; or at least we could in the 60's. =) An inboard installation could address issues of un-sprung weight and road debris.

The demonstrator car probably has an increase in the rear track (absent wheels with more offset).