My electric velomobile

[freebeard]

I strongly suspect that '8sq ft footprint' refers to the shadow it casts at noon, not A. (the FUV was listed as 35sq ft)

[The Toecutter]

I need to get pictures, but I just bought a used Milan SL velomobile, which I am in the process of reverse-engineering to improve my own design. I've also been riding the Milan around and even though it is unmotorized, I am slightly faster overall than with my electric velomobile that has 1500W of electric drivetrain on tap! Aerodynamics makes THAT big of a difference, which is astounding considering most of my riding is in city traffic with lots of stop and go on hilly terrain with streets that like to place stop signs at the bottom of every hill. The electric custom build is a lot easier/faster to pedal uphills thanks to the motor, but on flat ground and downhill, I'm significantly faster in the unmotorized Milan! The day I obtained the Milan, I was on a 4-lane state highway with a 40 mph speed limit, passing cars in the fast lane while pedaling my ass off!

So far, top speed in the Milan on flat ground is 47.8 mph. It likes to cruise at around 35 mph on the flat. I don't know if I'm going to motorize the Milan or not.

I definitely intend to use its design techniques for my next iteration of the KMX build, and it will also serve as a backup transportation while I take the KMX apart to install a rear suspension, swap in a smaller rear wheel, and recline the seat back further in the interest of reduced frontal area and improved cornering dynamics.

[freebeard]

I don't have a camera working at the moment, either; but I do have DuckDuckGo Images and their first choice is:




So what color is it?

[The Toecutter]

It is cream on the bottom, lime green on the top.

My biggest complaint is lack of ground clearance. It currently has a 3" ground clearance and I have to be selective where I ride it because a deep pothole can total it. I plan to install elastomers in addition to the stock suspension in order to add another 1" or so to the ground clearance, which will do wonders for its day to day usability.

I have one of the earlier models with the dual-sided rear swingarm which makes it compatible with hub motor installation. The newer ones have the single-sided swingarm and are not, and can only accept a mid-drive.

If I do motorize it, I'm looking to maybe get a MAC 5T geared hubmotor with a clutch that can be decoupled. This way, I can set it up with a street legal 750W/28 mph limit for going up hills and accelerating to speed, and then decouple the clutch and use 100% human power above 28 mph without dealing with any cogging losses, which would basically encompass virtually all of my flat ground and downhill riding. Some people are strong enough to cruise 40+ mph on the flat in a Milan. I'm not there yet, but maybe someday.

I suspect such a setup would yield a consumption of < 3 Wh/mi overall in a Milan, because for most of its usage it will be 100% human powered. I wouldn't need a very big battery pack. The bare minimum number of the 2170 type cells used in the Tesla Model 3, just enough to handle 750W continuous, would suffice. The complete EV system, running on a 1 lb Phaserunner controller, would probably only weigh 11-12 lbs, and it would be a very practical vehicle to live with on a day to day basis.

I'd go with a 5T wind version of the MAC so that when I use the "off road" mode, I could have a 1.5 kW setup in the programming, geared to top out at nearly 80 mph @ 72V. The FOC Phaserunner controller can vary the voltage to match the operating curve, so there'd be no worries about the motor operating with reduced efficiency.

[freebeard]

Over my head, but I'm happy for ya.

[Stubby79]

Does this "MAC 5T geared hubmotor" have a manula clutch? Your wording suggests it does. I'd like to see the specs if you have a link. (Seems MAC are a brand of ebike motors?)

If you're talking about your typical gear motor with it's internal freewheel, well, then just about any gear motor would do, except for maybe the gearing being too low to get you up to the speeds you're talking about....unless it's not actually laced to the wheel itself. Of course geared motors are not usually over 500w, either.

I'd think if you're able to hit 40+ on leg power, you could get away with a small motor. 250 or 350 watts...but this is my minimalist - in cost, weight and power - fixation talking. 750w/1500w in something that aerodynamic would be fun, whereas 350w would merely "get the job done" for the least.

Have fun when you get around to electrifying it!

[samwichse]

So what are you doing with your homemade velo?

[The Toecutter]

Originally Posted by samwichse

So what are you doing with your homemade velo?

I'm going to re-build it.

It's getting a rear suspension to compliment its front suspension, 16" motorcycle rims all around laced to stronger hubs with cotter pin axles, solar race car tires, the seat reclined further back(allowed by a smaller rear wheel), a roll cage, hydraulic disc brakes, a Schlumpf drive to greatly extend my gearing range, 6" ground clearance, and I'm going to make a greatly more aerodynamic carbon fiber body shell around it. The Milan I bought is being studied to guide my design choices. I'm going to set my custom velomobile up for 10+ kW and a 100+ mph top speed with PAS, BUT it will hopefully still retain enough efficiency to be pedaled to 40+ mph in a sprint on flat ground with the electric drive disabled as well as have low enough gearing to go 3 mph up a steep hill with a 60 rpm cadence. This is going to serve as a prototype to something that will then be built based off of that design.

I'm hoping to develop a platform that can accommodate a range of vehicles, from a 70 lb 100% human powered velomobile, to a 100 lb all wheel drive electric vehicle that has the bicycle drivetrain removed and an accelerator and brake pedal in their place with a powerful enough drive system to make more than 1 horsepower per pound of vehicle weight, or anything in between(racing kart, street legal 750W electric velomobile, illegal insanely fast electric velomobile, ect). By doing such, it can expand the potential market for the platform to justify increased production volume to keep per unit costs down.

I'd very much like to make a ridiculously fast/efficient ultralight sports car that weighed in around 120 lbs, and had at least that amount of horsepower. With a good body design, it could perhaps be stable to about 120 mph without lifting off the ground, and could be done using off the shelf cheap Chinese ebike motors/controllers with some LoneStar batteries, which might allow 0-120 mph acceleration in under 5 seconds. If it is as slippery as a velomobile, it would only need a 2-3 kWh pack to get acceptable range. Other than the chassis, every part on it would have a replacement cost in the hundreds of dollars or below, instead of tens of thousands of dollars as plagues modern EVs.

[The Toecutter]

Originally Posted by Stubby79

Does this "MAC 5T geared hubmotor" have a manula clutch? Your wording suggests it does. I'd like to see the specs if you have a link. (Seems MAC are a brand of ebike motors?)

It does have a manual clutch.

The 5T is not officially in production, but there are some examples of this wind in private hands. The 6T is the fastest wind readily available.

Ebike Hub Motor For Sale | MAC

The parameters for the MAC 6T are available in the simulator below:

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html

The MAC can reliably handle more than 1500W peak for short bursts, as many on endless-sphere have proven, but one must take care not to let it or the gears/clutch overheat.

[The Toecutter]

Pics of the Milan SL:





I just need to find out where I can get a MAC 6T, because they seem to be discontinued. Any suggestions on a geared hub motor with a clutch that can decouple the motor from the pedal drivetrain? A GMAC won't work. If I'm going to have to deal with cogging losses, I may as well order a Leafbike 1000W with a 3T wind.

Here's some more pics of the custom build, which has almost 9,000 miles added since conversion to electric in January: