My Kingdom for a NOx Sensor

[cfg83]

Christ -

Originally Posted by Christ

...

The reason I actually posted here is because I still wonder about the NOx sensor thing... if anyone's done it, how to do it, and where to get the parts from?

Audi A2's have 'em in Europe, but they cost megabucks, usually $300 and up :

Nox Sensor replacement instructions 1.6FSI - International Audi A2 Owners' Club
Audi A2 1.6 FSI | Car Features | 4car | channel4.com

The more I read, it seems there is a NOx sensor controller involved. If that implies what I think, then that's too much for me. I just want an output voltage like a narrow or wideband 02 sensor has (KISS).

I found this but haven't found any information on it since their announcement :

Innovate & CoorsTek Announce Advanced Oxygen and NOx Sensor Manufacturing Agreement
http://www.innovate-tech.com/pdf/PR0...e_CoorsTek.pdf

Irvine, California, November 20, 2008- Innovate! Technology and CoorsTek today announced an agreement to produce next-generation wideband oxygen and NOx sensors. The agreement combines Innovate’s DirectDigitalTM sensor technology with CoorsTek’s global high-volume manufacturing capacity.

There must be NOx sensors in the "BlueTec" diesels coming from Europe :

BMW, DaimlerChrysler and Volkswagen to Team on BLUETEC for the US — Autoblog Green

CarloSW2

[cfg83]

Hello -

I finally found one, but I can't imagine how much it would cost :

ECM - NOx 5210

ECM's NOx 5210 is a versatile and highly integratable NOx, Lambda, and O2 analyzer for the development of diesel, lean burn, HCCI, and gas turbine engines, and their aftertreatment systems. NOx, Lambda, and O2 are measured using a ceramic sensor that is mounted in the exhaust of the engine.

CarloSW2

[grillbritt]

I Have one Smart NOX sensor from VDOsiemens from a Scania. does anyone knows how you can use it? i dont find any information about that, its 4 pin probably CANH, CANL, Ground, Supply.

Regards Kristoffer

[cfg83]

Kristoffer -

Originally Posted by grillbritt

I Have one Smart NOX sensor from VDOsiemens from a Scania. does anyone knows how you can use it? i dont find any information about that, its 4 pin probably CANH, CANL, Ground, Supply.

Regards Kristoffer

If the NOx sensor does not require special communications with the rest of a CAN system, then maybe you can just measure the voltage. Get a baseline voltage while running the engine under OEM specifications. Get another reading under lean-burn conditions. The key will be mapping the voltage to NOx values.

However, it is a BIG assumption that the NOx sensor will operate in such a simple way. Here's more info on CAN :

Automotive CAN Network Diagnostics

CarloSW2

[mwebb]

....The Smart NOx Sensor is an electromechanical sensor with a custom-integrated circuit and microprocessor controls.

It communicates with the vehicle control bus

to enable optimum adjustment of key engine parameters, such as exhaust gas recirculation, air/fuel ratio and after-treatment injection to reduce nitric oxide emissions.....

these guys selling this Smart Nox sensor claim to be the only ones that have such a thing in production and being used
Continental Smart NOx Sensor Named 2010 Automotive News PACE Award Finalist -- AUBURN HILLS, Mich., Nov. 12 /PRNewswire/ --

instructions for connecting
http://www.drivven.com/visitor_downl...or_UM_RevA.pdf

[user removed]

Looks like your readings are well within acceptable limits for NOX, while the other readings are extremely low compared to averages.

This is the same reason the Honda VX had to be configured differently for California emissions regulations. It seems a shame that when weighed in total a functioning lean burn system falls above the California regs (for the VX) when the CO and HC figures are significantly lower.

Personally I would not worry about it since the total emissions of all 3 compounds is probably lower than a brand new, unmodified vehicle, not a 12 year old car.

Elevated NOX levels will be addressed with high pressure direct injection and heavy amounts of cooled EGR, either of which in your case might not work well as far as how well the engine runs, stumbling or misfires, which would drive the tailpipe emissions through the roof.

regards
Mech

[cfg83]

Old Mech -

Thanks. Since that 2007 test my NOx has gotten a lot worse. I barely past my last tset:

2007

2009


I am sure I will be out of compliance on my 2011 smog test (two different smog test facilities chose different gears for the test) :



I have since done an ignition-wire refresh, a new EGR, and new spark plugs. I have been planning to do an unofficial smog test to see where I am, but I have been too lazy.

But the original purpose of this thread was to be able to track my NOx for the purpose of making sure any non-OEM engine mods I do will not hurt my emissions. For instance, I had an EFIE, and I wanted to see what it was doing to my emissions. The EFIE has long since been disabled because I can't prove to myself that my emissions are good or bad.

CarloSW2

[grillbritt]

Today i did some research on my job in our Scania workshop manual and it says that pin 1,4 is supply and 2,3 is CAN but it didn´t say which was which. tomorrow i probably going to look in the circuit diagram and found out which is which, but even if i know that i must communicate through a CANbus interface. i found one on this page lawicel-shop. se/shop/ search for LAWICEL CANUSB Adapter. But then you going to need software to understand the data from the nox sensor, probably you need to make an own program for this...

[cfg83]

grillbritt -

Originally Posted by grillbritt

Today i did some research on my job in our Scania workshop manual and it says that pin 1,4 is supply and 2,3 is CAN but it didn´t say which was which. tomorrow i probably going to look in the circuit diagram and found out which is which, but even if i know that i must communicate through a CANbus interface. i found one on this page lawicel-shop. se/shop/ search for LAWICEL CANUSB Adapter. But then you going to need software to understand the data from the nox sensor, probably you need to make an own program for this...

That's what I was afraid of. As mwebb said, it's a sensor designed for CAN systems. Maybe if you had a spec on the sensor itself, independent of what the smart circuit does, you could bypass the "smart" part. But I would not do that unless I knew everything, because I am implying cutting it up, and I think that VDO sensor is expensive, yes?

CarloSW2

[user removed]

Check to see if your EGR passageways are clogged.

regards
Mech