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Old 10-05-2011, 06:13 PM   #11 (permalink)
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What type of driving are you doing with the truck currently. Do you commute with it, or is it just a project truck. Also, please start/upload a fuel log. I think there's a lot of folks here that will enjoy watching your progress.

-Dave

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My version of energy storage is called "momentum".
My version of regenerative braking is called "bump starting".

1 Year Avg (Every Mile Traveled) = 47.8 mpg

BEST TANK: 2,009.6 mi on 35 gal (57.42 mpg): http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...5-a-26259.html


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Old 10-05-2011, 10:40 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel_Dave View Post
What type of driving are you doing with the truck currently.

It does honest work once in a blue moon, but usually the most important thing it does is fetch more beer.

I'll have to look up the right way to do a mileage log ...
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Old 10-05-2011, 11:14 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Read your link.

I'm no help. Diesel with an exotic drive train.
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Old 10-06-2011, 02:48 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
I'm no help. Diesel with an exotic drive train.
I have admired your work. 28mpg for an F350 is awesome. I can imagine one day having classes like they do for racing: stock, super stock, pro stock, unlimited, etc. Your truck would be a shoe-in for whatever class it was in!

I'd love to see installation pictures for your "duckbill" or fastback or whatever you call it.

I'm also interested in your materials and installation of the big air dam.

What is a 4" slam?

The 3.08 is a relatively "long" gear anyways. Is that the longest for a sterling?

Thanks for all your contributions.
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:12 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lasitter View Post
I'll have to look up the right way to do a mileage log ...
Just click on the "Garage" link at the top of the page, then you should see a link for "My Garage-->Add new Vehicle". You have to add the vehicle first, then you can add a fuel log for the vehicle after that.
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Diesel Dave

My version of energy storage is called "momentum".
My version of regenerative braking is called "bump starting".

1 Year Avg (Every Mile Traveled) = 47.8 mpg

BEST TANK: 2,009.6 mi on 35 gal (57.42 mpg): http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...5-a-26259.html


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Old 10-06-2011, 10:36 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I think you'd be silly not to build an aerocap first. The benefits and usefulness outweigh any of the downsides, and it can come off in minutes to haul the beauty bark or topsoil or upright refrigerators.
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:55 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Lassiter:
Thanks. Its been a long battle getting here.

Answers:
My air dam is 0.375" rip stop steel reinforced conveyor belt. Not cheap. A real bear to work (next time I'll pay the shop rate and let the supplier fab my dam), but pretty much indestructible. Parking curbs and road debris don't even scratch the stuff.

3.08 is the numerically lowest gear I've ever seen for a 10.25" sterling axle. I don't think they are commonly available anymore.

What's more, I now have a Gear Vendors 22% electric overdrive. In top gear, I'm pushing a net (0.71x0.78x3.08) = 1.71:1 net gear ratio. At 50 MPH I'd be turning 950 RPM and my big diesel easily pushes that gearing.

a "4" slam" is sport truck talk for lowering the truck by 4 inches. I used drop I-beams up front to lower the front plus dropped down to a 225-75x16E tire to reduce radius by an extra inch. Used drop shackles to lower the rear. Not an overly expensive project and was good for a solid 1 MPG.

Right now I'm running a flat hard A.R.E. tonneau while I contemplate another shot at a aerolid.

I looked at your website and have a few questions.

1. How big a fuel tank are you gonna allow? Going 2,300 miles on one refill means I have to go 1,150 miles on a tankful. My truck has a 29 gallon tankl but going further than 25 gallons into increases my pucker factor (you never want to run a diesel out of fuel) so my limit is 25 gallons. to go 1,150 miles on 25 gallons requires 46 MPG. Now slowing down to 50 MPH, I am confident I can get 33 MPG. Look back. I have described my testing routine. its considerably higher road load than a steady 45-55 MPH. Even at 33 MPG, I'd need a minimum 35 gallon fuel tank. For lightly modified gas engine pickups, low 20s would be fine performance. If you could squeeze 23 MPG, you still need a minimum 50 gal tank and you coast into the gas station on fumes.

2. Going 2,300 miles at 50 MPH means four long days of getting flipped off by people travelling 20-30 MPH faster than you and maybe getting hassled by cops. You'll need a two-lane US route, not I-10.

3. I can appreciate your desire for fidelity to the way most folks use pickups. To achieve fidelity to the "max utility" configuration you should be running open bed. But an open bed will rob 3 MPG off the best of designs.

4. But the basic idea is a very good one. There is waaaay too much BS in MPG claims because there is really no quick way to verify. with other parameters of performance measurement is quick and decisive. Acceleration is easily judged on a drag strip in a matter of seconds. Top end is easily shown at Bonneville (or in a less arduous logistical exercise at Maxton or Goliad.) A few minutes on a dyno gives a lot of motorheads suitable bragging rights. MPG requires more time. the EPA thing is just an estimate made by people who are not that sharp. You are proposing to step into that void.
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Old 10-06-2011, 03:41 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
Parking curbs and road debris don't even scratch the stuff.
So you can drive forward until it slides over a parking curb, then back up, and it slides back over it with no problem? I was wondering about that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
3.08 is the numerically lowest gear I've ever seen for a 10.25" sterling axle. I don't think they are commonly available anymore.
That's my understanding as well. The Ecoboost challenge was done with a 3.15, which is pretty close.

My truck came with the 8.8 inch "corporate economy" 2.73, which was pretty common. More rare is the 2.47 which I have sitting on the shelf, and plan to try for a future longer trip at some point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
What's more, I now have a Gear Vendors 22% electric overdrive.
I checked out their web page and the install looks pretty slick. Can you order it with different ratios? It looks like something that would be a must have for anyone with a 3.55 or 4.11. Too bad it's so spendy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
In top gear, I'm pushing a net (0.71x0.78x3.08) = 1.71:1 net gear ratio. At 50 MPH I'd be turning 950 RPM and my big diesel easily pushes that gearing.
Diesels are great for producing gobs of torque at low RPM. I was going to say they don't have a throttle body either, but just now I'm reading that this has been added (when? what engines?) for the benefit of EGR systems. Sounds like a disaster to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
Right now I'm running a flat hard A.R.E. tonneau while I contemplate another shot at a aerolid.
I wish Brett Herndon had some backing for his invention. I'd love to buy one for my truck after my current project trip.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
I looked at your website and have a few questions.

1. How big a fuel tank are you gonna allow?
The fuel / fuel capacity thing is an interesting one that I pondered on for a long time. "Stopping once to refuel" without diddling much with the quantity is one of those things that simplifies and "captures the imagination". Saying you did it on "xx.x" gallons or "xx.x" miles per gallon just doesn't focus the mind like the prospect of running out of gas and just plain not making it.

That said, some of the F550 and F650 with certain tank options have very large fuel capacities and could likely make the whole trip without stopping! That's why I've been trying to come up with some common sense limitations that bring things back to an "everyman's truck".

From an objective standpoint, if you look at the 2008 adjusted EPA estimates for my 1996 F150 versus a Prius, my truck carries less fuel than a Prius relative to its fuel economy.

The Prius has a combined EPA estimate of 50mpg * 11.9 gallons for a range of 595 miles. My truck has a combined estimate of 15mpg * 37.2 gallons for a range of 558 miles. Without ecomodding and hypermiling, my truck is at a disadvantage to complete the proposed trip.

Did your truck even come with an EPA estimate? I can't find it in the 2008 before / after comparator database.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
Going 2,300 miles on one refill means I have to go 1,150 miles on a tankful. My truck has a 29 gallon tank but going further than 25 gallons into increases my pucker factor (you never want to run a diesel out of fuel)
Learned something new. It's not something you want to do often for fuel pump longevity, but I plan to run my tanks empty before the roadside refill. I can see now why having a different category for diesels is an even better idea than I had at first realized.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
I can appreciate your desire for fidelity to the way most folks use pickups. To achieve fidelity to the "max utility" configuration you should be running open bed. But an open bed will rob 3 MPG off the best of designs.
Completely true. But compared to aerolids, tonneaus are very common, and even Wayne did his trip with one ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
There is waaaay too much BS in MPG claims because there is really no quick way to verify. ... the EPA thing is just an estimate made by people who are not that sharp. You are proposing to step into that void.
Even after allowing tests that include cold temperatures, hot temperatures with AC, and finally the high-speed loop, the EPA numbers are not realistic. They're just more realistic than they used to be.

There are still no potholes on EPA tests. Or rain. Or uneven pavement. Or hills. Or crosswinds. Or head/tail winds. Or ...
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Old 10-06-2011, 04:46 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lasitter View Post
Diesels are great for producing gobs of torque at low RPM. I was going to say they don't have a throttle body either, but just now I'm reading that this has been added (when? what engines?) for the benefit of EGR systems. Sounds like a disaster to me.
I'm not sure about other makes & models, but Cummins added the intake throttle to the Dodge engine in 2007 (with the change from the 5.9 to the 6.7). It's there for 3 reasons:

1) EGR At certain relatively low loads there is a relatively small pressure drop between the exhaust & intake manifolds, so little or no EGR could flow without the throttle, even if the EGR valve was fully open. The throttle is closed down to lower the intake pressure to allow for more EGR flow. And, yes, it's a disaster for FE (but helps the emissions).

2) "Thermal Management" Because of emissions it is sometimes required to make/keep the aftertreatment temperatures high. Most noteably, when the DPF needs cleaned out. The throttle can be closed down to raise the exhaust temps in order to burn off the carbon. And, yes, it's a disaster for FE (but helps the emissions).

3) The shutdown "shake" In some cases, a diesel with a relatively high compression ratio with shutdown with a "shake" or "sneeze". Sometimes is stops so suddenly that the serpentine belt chirps. It's not really a problem, but some drivers don't like it. It's basically an effect of the compressed air in the motoring cylinders stoping the engine in its tracks. If the throttle is closed just prior to the engine shuting off less air gets into the cylinders and it comes to a more smooth stop.
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Diesel Dave

My version of energy storage is called "momentum".
My version of regenerative braking is called "bump starting".

1 Year Avg (Every Mile Traveled) = 47.8 mpg

BEST TANK: 2,009.6 mi on 35 gal (57.42 mpg): http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...5-a-26259.html


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Old 10-06-2011, 09:01 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Ever read of Louie Mattar?


I don't follow on the "value" of stopping only once. Fueling only once, okay. If I don't misunderstand, then I believe it's a mistake to drive in such a manner. The human body isn't meant for it. And attentiveness declines drastically past a certain point, which I have experienced as a commercial driver. There is no way to avoid white line fever.

I hope I simply misread this being a partial objective.

Otherwise, as a stunt, I think it fine to try. I also think an aerolid would be the hook to have others pay attention. Americans love devices, gadgets, gizmos. As the center section could be raised (or removed) for most work, I don't see an objection to "common use of a truck" as disqualifier.


To that end I would offer this as a another gizmo wit some value. Sort of skirts the line. LED Amber Random Pattern Strobe. Mount this to the right of the license plate, with an on/off switch. This is what is used by construction trucks, etc, that may be exiting/entering the highway slowly. Or, are just moving slowly due to overweight, overdimension, etc. Including the chase or pilot trucks. I've been meaning to get one as well.

Your route includes the 85-mph section of IH-10 in Texas. You might also carry a CB (Uniden 68 plus Little Wil antenna) to broadcast: "drivers, a slowmover, eastbound at mile marker 656" when you see commercial traffic overtaking you.

And I sure hope you have no slop in the steering linkage.



.


Last edited by slowmover; 10-06-2011 at 09:18 PM..
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