New Car Buyers

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by mcrews

"There was the '55 Chevy with the shift linkage that'd get stuck between gears,"

In 1955 Delorean WASNOT at GM!!!!!

First, that list of GM cars are the ones I (or my family when I was learning to drive) actually owned, so that I have direct, personal knowledge of them, not hearsay.

Second, my point in mentioning the '55 transmission linkage is that in 197x, when the Vega came out, DeLorean was influential in GM's management, and by your own statement, responsible for the Vega. Yet despite his statement that "Vega will be the highest quality product ever built by Chevrolet." GM had to have known about that transmission linkage problem for at least two decades, but never bothered to fix it. So either DeLorean deliberately lied, or he was ignorant to the point of incompetence.

FACT: there was NEVER a 2 FOOT fin on a Pontiac (where Delorean worked until 1965)...

Did I say there was? I specifically stated that it was a '59 CHEVY. You're quite free to look at images of its tailfins. In fact, 2 feet is rather an understatement, as they extend nearly from the center of the body, which (per Google) is 79.9 in.

Look the “Peter Principle’ in full force ----.
" DeLorean's years of engineering at Pontiac were highly successful, producing dozens of patented innovations for the company, and in 1961 he was promoted to the position of division chief engineer."
NOT!

So what is this, if not exactly the Peter Principle in action. He was apparently a competent engineer, so got promoted to management. Now maybe you're so in love with this guy that you want to argue that he had absolutely no connection with GM's manifold management & production failures of that period, but I don't think that's going to fly. If he was so darned good, why did he stick with GM so long?

[mcrews]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrews
"There was the '55 Chevy with the shift linkage that'd get stuck between gears,"
[B][I][COLOR="navy"]
In 1955 Delorean WASNOT at GM!!!!!
First, that list of GM cars are the ones I (or my family when I was learning to drive) actually owned, so that I have direct, personal knowledge of them, not hearsay.
EXACTLY……one example. (as you have continually done, siting 1 example as blanket proof)

Second, my point in mentioning the '55 transmission linkage is that in 197x, when the Vega came out, DeLorean was influential in GM's management,
WHY do you keep referring to him as "GM"????
you do understand corporate structures right....maybe????? He was NEVER in GM management (that's just you making things up to fit your story, right??? Please read his bio and FACTUALLY prove he was in GM management. But here is a basic business education for you. GM is a corporation with thousand of employees paid by GM. GM owns companies: Chevy, Olds, Pontiac, Buick, Caddy, GMAD,GMAC Finance Etc etc etc. Each company has it's own company president. Being a president of a division is NOT GM MANAGEMENT.Each company has it's own employees that are responsibly to that company. Are you following????? So when you repeatedly say "delorean work for GM....you are a making incorrect statements to fit your simple story.

and by your own statement, responsible for the Vega. Yet despite his statement that "Vega will be the highest quality product ever built by Chevrolet." GM had to have known about that transmission linkage problem
You do understand (since you are the production line genius.....) that it REALLY was a different transmission and linkage....right???? Or do you really thing that they used the same transmission in two different cars over 20 yrs....right????deliberately lied, or he was ignorant to the point of incompetence.
Reading or comprehension aren’t big with you are they????


Here, I copied the entire quote from my last post:


”The Vega was assigned to Chevrolet by corporate management, specifically by GM president Ed Cole, just weeks before DeLorean's 1969 arrival as Chevrolet division's general manager. In a Motor Trend interview August, 1970 DeLorean said, "Vega will be the highest quality product ever built by Chevrolet."[18] By DeLorean's orders, tens of extra inspectors were assigned on the Vega assembly line and the first two thousand cars were road tested. He stated, "The first cars, from a manufacturing standpoint, were well built."
OK PAY ATTENTION TO THE RED WORDS...........
But in 1972, General Motors Assembly Division (GMAD) (FACT DeLorean had no control over GMAD)took over the Chevrolet Lordstown assembly plant and adjoining Fisher body plant. Their main goal was to cut costs and more than 800 workers were laid off, many of which were additional inspectors. This led to assembly-line vandalism, with workers intentionally slowing the line, leaving off parts and installing others improperly. Incomplete and often non-functioning cars soon filled the factory lot, which then had to be reprocessed and repaired by a team assigned to this task by DeLorean.
(DID YOU DECIDE TO IGNORE THIS DOCUMENT FACT?????)

A one-month strike followed and dealers didn't receive enough cars for the demand in 1972. DeLorean regrouped for the 1973 model year with Vega sales of 395,792. The one millionth Vega was built in May 1973, a month after DeLorean's GM resignation.[19]

So are you thru lying about the vega/delorean? You do understand that my quotes from wiki are documented facts? Your comments whining about Delorean are purely anecdotal.

YOU MAKE ME LAUGH! Just so I understand, out of the 250,000 executives that have worked at GM, Chevy, OLds, Pontiac, Buick, Caddy, GMAC Finance GM Trucks, et al, during the time DeLorean was there, you hold him personally responsible….sorry, he’s not God. But again, you wouldn’t be posing these….welll…..XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX questions if you had read his book. Or maybe the reader’s digest version…..or maybe a summary…….or maybe “you are ignorant to the point of incompetence.”
Quote:
FACT: there was NEVER a 2 FOOT fin on a Pontiac (where Delorean worked until 1965)...
Did I say there was?
YOU BLAMED DELOREAN IN YOU OWN QUOTE!!!!!!
I specifically stated that it was a '59 CHEVY. You're quite free to look at images of its tailfins. In fact, 2 feet is rather an understatement, as they extend nearly from the center of the body, which (per Google) is 79.9 in.

What in the name of all that is holy does that fin have to do with delorean???????
DUH!!! That’s exactly my point (LIGHTBULB!!!!!) !!! In your personally history of ‘blame Delorean, you site a car that he had ABSOLUTELY NO RESPONSIBILITY for. You list that of one of the 4 automobles that Delorean was responsible for that you (or ‘your family’) supposedly owned. Maybe go back and read what you wrote….you did write it?????

Quote:
Look the “Peter Principle’ in full force ----.
" DeLorean's years of engineering at Pontiac were highly successful, producing dozens of patented innovations for the company, and in 1961 he was promoted to the position of division chief engineer."
NOT!
So what is this, if not exactly the Peter Principle in action. He was apparently a competent engineer, so got promoted to management.

And was a proven success.

Now maybe you're so in love with this guy that you want to argue that he had absolutely no connection with GM's manifold management & production failures of that period,

Ok, take a breath….stay on topic. The topic is assembly line production, Delorean,and his scathing tell all book about GM’s failure at assembling and producing cars.
Now, staying topical, what was Delorean’s direct line of responsibility over GM(Chevy, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, GMAC production, et al) that had him directly responsible for manifold management & production failure”…again, quit thinking of Delorean as a failed god and SPECIFICLY and FACTUALLY show your proof.
but I don't think that's going to fly. If he was so darned good, why did he stick with GM so long? Beacause he was that damn good!
Maybe because he was amazingly successful and finally frustrated enough to write a scathing tell-all book.

Again(lord I really hate have to type stuff twice for you)......
THe Peter Principle Is a set of PROGRESSIVE promotions, to avoid demotion or firing, to a level of highest incompetence.
YOu 'claim' that he was a bad manager. ok, where?
Not at Pontiac!
Not at Chevy!
Then he resigned/was fired.
SO, without using your simple (and false) 4 car examples over 20 yrs, PLEASE prove (factually and specifically) what each level of incompetence was and where he reached the top.
Yes, to prove the peter principle, you have to show a successive level of incompetence. You do know that right????

[Fat Charlie]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

So what is this, if not exactly the Peter Principle in action. He was apparently a competent engineer, so got promoted to management. Now maybe you're so in love with this guy that you want to argue that he had absolutely no connection with GM's manifold management & production failures of that period, but I don't think that's going to fly. If he was so darned good, why did he stick with GM so long?

+1, except where he failed was at the next level. When he was running the whole company and not just a division, he thought coke smuggling was a good financing choice. GM's good upper management (has anyone ever written that phrase before?) kept him out of trouble.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie

GM's good upper management (has anyone ever written that phrase before?) kept him out of trouble.

I'd disagree that DeLorean thought that coke smuggling was a good financing choice, it's just that by that time he'd run things down so far that it was the ONLY financing choice.

Not that I have any objection to coke smuggling per se, you understand, but if you're going to do it, you need to be good at it :-)

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

I'd disagree that DeLorean thought that coke smuggling was a good financing choice, it's just that by that time he'd run things down so far that it was the ONLY financing choice.

Even if it was the ONLY financing choice (which I don't believe), it isn't the ONLY choice to make. The other option is to file bankruptcy and start over.

Coke smuggling is foolish regardless of how skilled a person may be at it.

[Fat Charlie]

Drug smuggling is hard enough if it's your business' entire focus. When it's all that's left on your list of ways to get some working capital, you probably aren't going to be successful. When it's even on your car company's list of funding options, you need to rethink every decision that brought you to that point.

[Xist]

So, when will Elio go this route?

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by mcrews

OK PAY ATTENTION TO THE RED WORDS..

Why do you think I'm so technically ignorant as to allow your words to appear in different colors or sizes? Haven't you ever heard of user CSS? You're just wasting time putting in all that markup, because everything you write appears as white text on a black background to me. In a nice, calm Arial font, too :-)

Oh, and since calm has come up, could I suggest meditation exercises? Really helps with your blood pressure.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Xist

So, when will Elio go this route?

They still don't even have a production model to hide coke inside

Anyway, if they start outsourcing the production of the trike in Bolivia it would be kinda suspicious...

[MobilOne]

I would like to change slightly the drift of this thread. During the 50's and 60's and early 70's, each auto division of GM had some unique characteristics. Chevy, Buick, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, and Cadillac all had their own engines and engine plants and engine design engineers. All the bodies for each division were assembled by Fisher Body Division, but each Fisher plant specialized on what they built. For examples, Fisher Plant #1 in Flint built Buick bodies and Chevrolet wagon bodies; Fisher Plant #2 in Flint built Chevrolet bodies; the Fisher Plant in Lansing built Oldsmobile bodies. I don't know, but I suspect that pattern was used throughout GM, more or less.
Starting in 1977, GM started putting whatever brand engine into whatever brand car. That is, you could buy an Oldsmobile and it would have a Chevrolet engine, etc. (I have a friend who experienced just that.)(GM, later, was forced to give him a check for $200).
My point is, over time, the brand identification was blurred or even lost since the difference between the brands became nothing more than interior and exterior trim. And what we have today are Chevy's, Buicks, and Caddy's with the same bodies, engines, and transmissions. The only real difference being exterior and interior trim.
Another action that helped cause the loss of identity was the requirement that all divisions had to move their headquarters to the GM building in Detroit.

A good business school case of how to take a company with five brands and slowly reduce them to one brand.