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Old 08-17-2022, 11:01 PM   #21 (permalink)
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"The percentage of the value of the components contained in such battery that were manufactured or assembled in North America is equal to or greater than the applicable percentage" (50% for 2023) = $3750

the percentage of the value of the applicable critical minerals (as defined in section 45X(c)(6)) contained in such battery that were--
``(i) extracted or processed--

``(I) in the United States, or
``(II) in any country with which the United States has a free trade agreement in effect, or

``(ii) recycled in North America, is equal to or greater than the applicable percentage (as certified by the qualified manufacturer, in such form or manner as prescribed by the Secretary) (40% for 2023) = $3750 credit

So one is the battery components be manufactured in North America at 50% And the 2nd is the minerals inside must be 40% North America, or free trade country, or recycled in NA.

I think the first 50% components is doable, but the 40% no China or Russia thing on the source of the minerals is not going to be possible.

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Old 08-17-2022, 11:15 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Then there is also this separate little nugget.
"(7) Excluded entities.--For purposes of this section, the term `new clean vehicle' shall not include--``(A) any vehicle placed in service after December 31, 2024, with respect to which any of the applicable critical minerals contained in the battery of such vehicle (as described in subsection (e)(1)(A)) were extracted, processed, or recycled by a foreign entity of concern (as defined in section 40207(a)(5) of the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (42 U.S.C. 18741(a)(5))), or``(B) any vehicle placed in service after December 31, 2023, with respect to which any of the components contained in the battery of such vehicle (as described in subsection (e)(2)(A)) were manufactured or assembled by a foreign entity of concern (as so defined).''."

That makes it sound like even if a single screw or an ounce of Lithium comes from a "foreign entity of concern" it disqualifies the whole thing.

Here is the best link I could find with more exact language contained in the bill
https://www.whitecase.com/insight-al...e-supply-chain

Last edited by Hersbird; 08-17-2022 at 11:20 PM..
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Old 08-18-2022, 10:18 AM   #23 (permalink)
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If the foreign exclusion is persued, nothing qualifies.
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Old 08-18-2022, 10:30 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I know of the credit works - I've read the bill. The best source is the primary source -
https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-...%5D%7D&r=1&s=1

I also know that industry was sitting at the table when this was being written - just as it was for NAFTA and the newly named USMCA. For USMCA there were content requirements that sounded hard but were actually easy. The biggest thing was doing the new paperwork to document what we were already doing. This is a bit harder but not impossible. As always the devil is in the details and what really matters is how the regulations are written. The bill is an outline and leaves it to regulators to write the details.

If the content % is written like NAFTA and USMCA it will be based on dollar values not part count or weight. That helps to boost the NA part content a lot as things are just more expensive to make here. You import a $10 raw casting, CNC machine it, and now it is a $100 housing.

I can't stress enough how important the two things I highlighted in my post above are. First - adding countries with free trade agreements in addition to just North America. We have a trade agreement with Chile. They are the 2nd largest lithium producer in the world. We have a trade agreement with Australia - they mine all sorts of minerals including key battery materials like lithium, nickel, and copper. We have a trade agreement with Korea - 3 of the largest battery manufacturers are based there. For minerals the use of OR instead of AND is huge. That opens up the entire world except for "Foreign entities of concern". We don't need giant lithium mines in the USA to meet the sourcing requirements.

The "Foreign entities of concern" will require the biggest supply chain changes. Again, it depends on how the regulations are written and how far back they go. If they only go back to tier 1 or 2 it won't be that bad. If they go ALL the way back to every pin and connector in a harness from a tier 5 supplier that will be more difficult - but still doable.

The auto industry is geographically diverse but dominated by large international companies with production facilities all over the world. It helps that the US is less than 10% of global EV sales. So LG sends Chinese components to the EU and EU components to the USA. No different than some swaps made after USMCA. Engines are made in multiple facilities and some companies had to send US built engines to Mexico or Canada final assembly plants and Mexican or Canadian built engines to US final assembly plants. All the factories kept making what they were making but instead of shipping the engine next door they had to send it hundred or thousands of miles to a different assembly plant to make the content percentages work out. Less efficient for sure but way better than paying a 25% tariff. The same type of thing will happen with battery components and minerals.

I predict the automakers with NA vehicle and battery assembly plants will be fine as long as they didn't pick a Chinese battery partner. If a company picked CATL or BYD they will be in trouble.

Finally - the auto industry ALWAYS cries wolf at any new regulation - and then we meet it and move on. Happens with fuel economy, safety, emissions, USMCA - etc. This won't be any different but will current supply chains it may take a few years. $7500 is a pretty powerful motivator - which is the point.
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Old 08-18-2022, 05:13 PM   #25 (permalink)
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This isn't the manufacturers crying, this is a real customer right in the sweet spot of what should be the target of tax breaks. A middle class working guy who wanted to buy an EV to use as my daily driver.

Oh well the Hemi Jeep works well still.
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Old 08-18-2022, 05:46 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
This isn't the manufacturers crying, this is a real customer right in the sweet spot of what should be the target of tax breaks. A middle class working guy who wanted to buy an EV to use as my daily driver.

Oh well the Hemi Jeep works well still.
It will work out in a bit after initial growing pains. I can understand why it would be a disappointment for you today but this is a 10 year program.

I suspect there will be some interest negotiations when one car on the lot gets a $7500 credit and the identical car next it doesn't. We may see some GM-like factory rebates to move the cars without a credit.

VW is pretty well situated for the new credit next year with final assembly in Tennessee and battery assembly in Georgia - partnered with the Korean company SK.
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Old 08-19-2022, 07:02 PM   #27 (permalink)
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VW isn't making me happy either. They opened up a separate order bank for 2023 ID4s rather than move the 2022 orders automatically into 2023. So IF I decide to pursue a TN built 2023 I have to start 100% all over from the bottom of the list and put down a new reservation.

If VW stands by that, and it seems like they are, irregardless of the tax credit they will be delivering 2023 ID4s speced exactly like I want to customers who ordered 2 months ago before the people who have been waiting over a year. Oh and those people get the $7500 while the people who gave them a $500 interst free loan the last year pay more. The 2023 price for what I ordered also only went up $90 so thats not a concern either.
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Old 11-02-2022, 05:53 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Well my ID4 is in and as I predicted it's sitting on the lot next to someones 2023 that they ordered 2 months ago. That person gets their new model with the $7500 credit intact and had to wait 2 months while I've been waiting over a year and get zero. I want to buy the car, but it makes no sense. If I refuse it and instead order a 2023 I will get the newer model at least a $3750 credit and better exterior and interior colors. The 2023 in my trim has increased $1300 in price not counting the credit. I can't believe VW won't at least throw a $3000 factory incentive on these leftover 2022s, I'd probably take it. I'm going to go test drive it Saturday and see what they will offer on trade for the Sonata hybrid. My fiance is moving to my town so we won't have a 450 mile trip every weekend anymore, the free fast charging at Walmart is just a couple miles from out new apartment. It's winter here and this is an AWD as well. I say winter to justify AWD but what I secretly want the AWD for is the added power LOL.
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Old 11-02-2022, 06:21 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
will get the newer model at least a $3750 credit and better exterior and interior colors.
Color is important.

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