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Old 05-25-2014, 05:08 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I forgot to mention that I checked under the passenger-side footwell carpet and have the old 37800-PHM-345 ECM that is subject to Honda’s Service Bulletin 07-038 which condemns the 345 as a “failed part” for misinterpreting sensor inputs and resulting in a false catalytic deterioration diagnosis. The bulletin’s fix is replacement with 37800-PHM-355, so I scored one on eBay. My mechanic did in fact pull an P0420 “catalyst system efficiency below threshold”, so I’m hoping beyond hope that replacing the 345 the 355 will prove that particular DTC false.

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Old 05-29-2014, 01:05 AM   #22 (permalink)
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51.7 MPG on my first real tankful. I’m very happy with that, all things considered.
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Old 07-26-2014, 04:42 AM   #23 (permalink)
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New battery

Scored a new battery from Hybrid ReVolt, installed it last saturday, no hiccoughs, no hassles whatsoever. It is pretty cool, I’d never driven any Insight before mine and certainly never one with a working IMA. The way the electric motor starts the car and the “Auto Stop” feature were very cool to experience for the first time. But all is not rosy.

My impression is that my ICE is still “sick”. 0-60, even with a full battery is about 21 seconds. My fuel economy is about the same, about 44 mpg. We re-checked the EGR manifold, or plate and cleaned it again. The bad -345 computer was swapped for a -355, and the false “catalytic converter below threshold” (or whatever it’s called) disappeared, which is not what I expected, I assumed my cats needed replacing, in spite of the false bad cat code that the condemned 37820-PHM-345 ECM is notorious for producing, but so far, no cat codes with the new ECM. The ICE still struggles to make power and to drive “normally”, or to keep up with urban traffic, I have to dip into the assist inordinately and therefore it is a struggle to keep my battery from getting depleted quickly under such conditions.

The ECM no longer produces any codes to speak of, but the bucking problem was persistent with the EGR plugged in, and I could have swore that it even bucked once or twice—momentarily, with the EGR disconnected.

So yesterday, I pulled the spark plugs, double and triple checked the gaps and torqued them to 20 pound-feet then checked their orientation in the cylinder or combustion chamber. My head is stamped with three “B”s, and I’m running the 14-buck “B” OEM plugs. If using a clock as a reference, I’ve got two with the ground wire electrode pointing at about nine o’clock and one at about eight-thirty, or for clarification, the open part of the electrodes are at two-thirty and three o’clock. I thought the open part of the electrodes were supposed to point at one or the intake valves, or six o'clock? I squeezed some silicone dielectric grease into the coil boots and swapped all of the coils around randomly before I slipped them back on and put it all back together and then plugged in the EGR valve and took it for a test drive.


The bucking is still present but not persistent. I can actually get it to burn lean without bucking, (yay!) but only with difficulty and only on a level road at no faster than about 44 mph. It still wants to buck more than it doesn’t.

I think I might be on to something. The precise feel of the car and of the bucking changed with the coil swapping, and I sense that I might have a bad coil in spite of there being no misfire check engine code present (should there be?) So I ordered three new OEM Hitachi coils from Rockauto and will score some spark plug shims to experiment with the indexing of the spark plugs and hope that this will help my car’s power, economy and drivability, which all are terrible at present.

My ICE seems to run smoothly, in spite of it’s apparent weakness and tendency to buck, but it does have 240k miles on it. Perhaps a compression check is in order? Any input would be appreciated.

Last edited by doctorgonzo; 07-26-2014 at 04:54 AM..
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Old 07-26-2014, 09:50 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Congrats on the new battery! Matt is a good guy. You may have a clogging cat which would cause these issues or the egr is the majority of it. You can also. Check your vtec gasket
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Old 07-26-2014, 10:05 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Somehow I missed this thread. Nice cars. Congrats on the battery. Subscribed.
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See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.



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Old 07-26-2014, 11:10 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I have car envy. Good snag! I can't wait to see the progress.
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Old 07-26-2014, 11:28 AM   #27 (permalink)
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My gut tells me that I have deteriorated catalytic converters, but I guess that’s hard to confirm without taking them off, correct? My check engine light is on for what I assumed was my EGR valve being unplugged, but I’ll get it scanned to make sure the cat efficiency below threshold code hasn’t returned. I don’t really mind spending money on new cats, but it would be nice to confirm that they need replacing somehow before I do.

So is there a consensus here on where the ground wire or electrode of the spark plug should be indexed on one of these cars? 12 o’clock? (in other words, that the open, unshrouded spark should face the front of the vehicle?)

I’ll report back after I install the new coils and mess with the spark plug shims.

Thanks for the kind words and encouragement.
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Old 07-27-2014, 04:38 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I’m checking vacuum hoses to and around the MAP sensor in the A.M.
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Old 07-27-2014, 05:43 AM   #29 (permalink)
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My uncle had 6 out of 8 bad coils on his 2007 Ford Explorer limited edition, causing annoying losses in power and 'bucking'. He never saw a CEL. Just saying. I'm also really happy this car went to you, it brings a warm feeling to my heart that this car is getting revived by you .
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Old 07-27-2014, 09:36 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Dang, my wife has the same exact car (2007 Explorer Limited V8) and it was bucking during acceleration, so I replaced the coils (about 250 bucks) and the Iridium plugs (about a hundred bucks), and it immediately fixed the bucking.

One of the plugs had nothing left where the cathode should have been.

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